75 yr old woman sentenced to 40 lashes for mingling.

[Bells]

They are part of the same civilization. Their enemies are the same, the Muslim populace. Saudi Arabia finances the US, and US supports Saudi Arabia.

As far as I'm concerned, they are both part of the same civilization. Saudi monarchy are the children of traitors who helped consolidate British and French rule in the Middle east. Hardly part of OUR civilization.

But they [Saudi's.. leadership, royal family, etc] are Muslims and therefore your brothers, correct? Aren't "all Muslims your brothers and sisters"? Aren't you "one, whether in life or death"? Aren't all the Saudis, being Muslims, a 'piece of your body and soul'?

 

[S.A.M.]

But they [Saudi's.. leadership, royal family, etc] are Muslims and therefore your brothers, correct? Aren't "all Muslims your brothers and sisters"? Aren't you "one, whether in life or death"? Aren't all the Saudis, being Muslims, a 'piece of your body and soul'?

Sure, but that doesn't change the fact that they are propped up by western interests.

Their reign of power is dependent completely on western support.

Sure he does. And what's more, the Saudi state holds that the lobbies in question speak for God himself.

It's been suggested (probably correctly) that this particular case is exactly a ploy by one of said lobbies to push back against Abdullah's recent moves against the morality police.

You assume a level of bureaucracy that does not exist. This is probably some muttawwa who has no idea that he did anything extreme.

He is following the letter of the law, after all.

S.A.M., the article makes no mention of your personal opinion, but I take it you are agreeing that the lashes on the women in question was a bad thing.

Good and bad is relative. I am not for capital punishment or torture, but apparently, several legal systems consider it a good idea. The Saudi legal system is for the Saudi people and its up to them to reform it.

I'm so thankful that I'm an American living in a relatively free society where religion plays a small role.

Too bad it doesn't help the people that Americans torture or kill.

Who do you think has tortured or killed more people in the last year? Americans or Saudis?

 

[Bells]

Sure, but that doesn't change the fact that they are propped up by western interests.

Their reign of power is dependent completely on western support.

And?

If they weren't "propped up by Western interest", would their laws be different? There would be no morality police? Would their mindset be any different to what it is now?

The Saudi legal system is for the Saudi people and its up to them to reform it.

And here is where it gets tricky. It is hardly a democracy where the Saudi people can have a say. They have zero say. How can they reform something they have no control or say over? If they speak out they will most probably be arrested. Hell, you can be arrested in your own home if you are entertaining people from the opposite sex who are of no relation to you. So how will they reform it?

Too bad it doesn't help the people that Americans torture or kill.

Who do you think has tortured or killed more people in the last year? Americans or Saudis?

Do you have exact figures for both? Because from my understanding, both keep their torture and kill rates a bit hush hush.

 

[S.A.M.]

And?

If they weren't "propped up by Western interest", would their laws be different? There would be no morality police? Would their mindset be any different to what it is now?

See this:

And here is where it gets tricky. It is hardly a democracy where the Saudi people can have a say. They have zero say. How can they reform something they have no control or say over? If they speak out they will most probably be arrested. Hell, you can be arrested in your own home if you are entertaining people from the opposite sex who are of no relation to you. So how will they reform it?

Thats the problem with supporting and arming dictators.

Do you have exact figures for both? Because from my understanding, both keep their torture and kill rates a bit hush hush.

I think you'd have to learn Arabic for the Saudi rates but none of their stuff is hush hush, since its according to their law. However, I don't see any Saudi troops bombing schools or occupying countries so I think its a safe bet that the US has tortured and killed more people last year.

 

[quadraphonics]

You assume a level of bureaucracy that does not exist.

I am assuming only a church and a royal family, which is exactly what Saudi Arabia has.

For that matter, I have it on good authority that Saudi Arabia hosts an extensive bureaucracy. It's one of the primary methods for the King to distribute oil revenue and so buy patronage. Not that said bureaucracy does much of anything, but it is there.

The Saudi legal system is for the Saudi people and its up to them to reform it.

Except that the victim in question is Syrian, and will be deported (i.e., excised from "the Saudi people") once her draconian punishment is completed. And the Saudis hold that their laws are derived directly from Islam (they literally claim that the Koran is their Constitution) and the king's legitimacy is based on such universal religious claims ("Custodian of the Two Holy blah blah blah").

Who do you think has tortured or killed more people in the last year? Americans or Saudis?

What do you suppose the two have to do with eachother? It's not like I support torture when Americans do it, and I certainly wouldn't want it made an open part of the American legal codes like it is in Saudi Arabia.

 

[S.A.M.]

Yeah, hence the "we don't do body counts" and "collateral damages". What you dont acknowledge cannot be debated.

 

[fedr808]

Sam's responses can be summarized with a single sentance "I know you are but what am i?"

It summarizes her knowledge, maturity, arrogance, and bigotedness in 8 easy words.

 

[scott3x]

Sam's responses can be summarized with a single sentance "I know you are but what am i?"

It summarizes her knowledge, maturity, arrogance, and bigotedness in 8 easy words.

I see many of her responses more as defensive reflex. I think a better analogy of what you say above might be "I know we are, but you are worse". Whether she's right or not is completely besides the point; she's simply stating her beliefs, and in a fairly civilized way no less, just as everyone else is entitled to state their own (not always so civilized though).

Many times, the response you get reflect the posts you make. I personally have found that S.A.M. is a nice person. Treat her well and she does the same. Even under fire, she certainly doesn't stoop to the level of some of the posters here, which is probably why she's a mod while posters of the other variety generally aren't.

 

[milkweed]

Except that the victim in question is Syrian, and will be deported (i.e., excised from "the Saudi people") once her draconian punishment is completed.

If she survives the 40 lashes. Might be deported in a body bag.

 

[S.A.M.]

If she survives the 40 lashes. Might be deported in a body bag.

How many have died from lashings?

 

[Orleander]

How many have died from lashings?

how would anyone know? has Saudi Arabia always been a country open with its judicial policies and enforcement?

 

[S.A.M.]

Yeah, pretty much. They don't have secret prisons exposed by digital trophies.

All their punishments are carried out in the public square.

 

[Baron Max]

How many have died from lashings?

A more important question is .....who cares?

Now if it was an American, .....

Baron Max

 

[Baron Max]

Yeah, pretty much. They don't have secret prisons exposed by digital trophies.

Ya' mean like the Muslim insurgents in Iraq and the Muslim Taliban fighters in Afghanistan?

Baron Max

 

[Orleander]

Yeah, pretty much. They don't have secret prisons exposed by digital trophies.

All their punishments are carried out in the public square.

So women sat on juries and helped make laws? Newspapers reported on those public punishments?
I wonder why its only been hitting the world wide media lately. :shrug:

 

[Baron Max]

So women sat on juries and helped make laws?

Yeah, Saudi women hold positions of great power and prestige in the nation. ....that's a major joke for those of you who are a little ignorant.

Baron Max

 

[Orleander]

Yeah, Saudi women hold positions of great power and prestige in the nation. ....that's a major joke for those of you who are a little ignorant.

Baron Max

do you think she got it??

 

[S.A.M.]

So women sat on juries and helped make laws? Newspapers reported on those public punishments?
I wonder why its only been hitting the world wide media lately. :shrug:

Memri must have got hold of it. Not certain what women or juries have to do with secrecy.

Having a woman did not help this unnamed person.

Newspapers report them as frequently in Saudi Arabia as American media does on every capital punishment administered.

But its no secret, since its publicly administered and is the law. I believe her lawyer is appealing the sentence.

 

[Orleander]

sam, why can't we be upset and want to help this old lady? Is it because you don't like Saudis? Is it because she's a widow?

 

[S.A.M.]

You can. Right after you stop killing the ones in Iraq Afghanistan Pakistan and Gaza.

What makes this woman more special than that guy up there?