7 Baha'is sentenced to 20 years in Iran
- Thread starter Michael
- Start date
No, you did not. You expressed a strawman argument to support your hypocrisy and now you are lying to support the strawman.
Saturday, March 03, 2007
Entire Muslim Population of Iran Converts to Scientology
Today in Iran vast public ceremonies marked the mass conversion of the entire Muslim population to the Church of Scientology. There seems to be no single reason for this puzzling event, but rather the seemingly-random simultaneous convergence of a number of motivations at once. Most common reasons given for the conversion include the following:
1. Tired of waiting for the 12th Imam.
2. The Ayatolla has been a closet Scientologist for years.
3. Now the world will really be scared when we get nukes.
4. What's the point of being Muslim if you can't be Sunni?
5. The existence of the Prophet cartoons was making life unbearable.
6. We wanted to surprise Ahmadinejad when he gets back from Malaysia.
L. Ron Hubbard could not be reached for comment.
Entire Muslim Population of Iran Converts to Scientology
Today in Iran vast public ceremonies marked the mass conversion of the entire Muslim population to the Church of Scientology. There seems to be no single reason for this puzzling event, but rather the seemingly-random simultaneous convergence of a number of motivations at once. Most common reasons given for the conversion include the following:
1. Tired of waiting for the 12th Imam.
2. The Ayatolla has been a closet Scientologist for years.
3. Now the world will really be scared when we get nukes.
4. What's the point of being Muslim if you can't be Sunni?
5. The existence of the Prophet cartoons was making life unbearable.
6. We wanted to surprise Ahmadinejad when he gets back from Malaysia.
L. Ron Hubbard could not be reached for comment.
"We advise against all travel to within 100km of the entire Iran/Afghanistan border, and to within 10km of the entire Iran/Iraq border. The Pakistan border area is also insecure, and we advise against all travel east of the line running from Bam to Jask. This includes all travel to Bam. See the Terrorism & Security, and Local Travel, sections of this Travel Advice."
http://www.fco.gov.uk/en/travel-and...vice-by-country/middle-east-north-africa/iran
It seems most "Islamic" States, Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Indonesia, KSA, Malaysia etc.. etc... etc... legally persecute religious minorities in a manner reminiscent of Medieval Europe. But, that's not really what I'm talking about. I'm more interested in the WHY of things. WHY do Islamic societies have such utter contempt towards religious minorities? Why SAM? Why the intolerance of religious minorities? Or are we going to go on a round-the-world trip again?
It's a very simple question and I really wonder why it makes you so nervous to address it in a serious manner.
I can tell you why the USA invaded Iraq. Oil. See how simple that is. Why do the Jews persecute the Palestinians? Religion. It really is that simple most of the time. No need for a conspiracy theory. Nothing. Just a bit of common sense.
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Now why would you say that after being presented with evidence to the contrary?
Is the CMU a less than legal repression? Is the French lacite a less than legal repression? Aren't they debating banning Scientlogy in court? Didn't the law ban the burka? Is the Chinese torture less than legal?
I think you'll find that all states persecute minorities legally even though some pretend otherwise, the Bahais were after all indicted for espionage just like the civil rights activist and the Iraqi physician in Terre Haute are terrorists. You just happen to be fixated on Muslims
Is the CMU a less than legal repression? Is the French lacite a less than legal repression? Aren't they debating banning Scientlogy in court? Didn't the law ban the burka? Is the Chinese torture less than legal?
I think you'll find that all states persecute minorities legally even though some pretend otherwise, the Bahais were after all indicted for espionage just like the civil rights activist and the Iraqi physician in Terre Haute are terrorists. You just happen to be fixated on Muslims
The scientologists were brought to court for being frauds and taking advantage of people, not for their religion.
Yeah just like the Bahais were indicted for espionage, not for their religion.
And the burka was banned because in an open society everyone should keep their face visible, not because Muslims wear them
And minarets were banned because they interfere with local architecture not because they represent Muslim identity
I'm sure if you look hard enough, you'll find a reasonable explanation for the Vel d'Hiv - ah wait, the French don't report the religion of their citizens so they had no idea it was Jews they were transporting. They probably thought they were enemy combatants.
And the burka was banned because in an open society everyone should keep their face visible, not because Muslims wear them
And minarets were banned because they interfere with local architecture not because they represent Muslim identity
I'm sure if you look hard enough, you'll find a reasonable explanation for the Vel d'Hiv - ah wait, the French don't report the religion of their citizens so they had no idea it was Jews they were transporting. They probably thought they were enemy combatants.
and here we go around the world again :shrug:
OK, around the world we go..... again
(1) Is the CMU a less than legal repression?
You will have to open a new thread and provide a comprehensive review. Without that info, and just guessing, I'd say these people are being imprisoned in solitary because there is reason to believe they are trying to recruit killers on the inside and outside to carry out violent attacks on American Citizens. They do the exact same thing to White Supremacist Skin Heads - lock them in SuperMax prisons. No contact with the outside. Not because WASP ideology is illegal, it's not, but because we don't want NeoNazi's to recruit murderers on the inside or outside to kill more American Citizens.
Islam, just like White Supremacism, is still very much legal in the USA. At present, there is nothing in the US Constitution or Bill of Rights that legally prevents a Muslims or Skin Heads from any opportunities open to any other Citizen. They can rise to the highest office of the land - even POTUS. They can work in the any branch of government including the military. And do.
(2) Scientology.
IMO it seem that the French want a pansy Nanny State.
Scientology, just like Islam, is still very much legal in France. At present, there is nothing in the French Constitution that legally bars any Scientologist or Muslim from any opportunities of any other French Citizen. They can rise to the highest office of the land. They can work in the any branch of government including the military. And do. I suppose the French feel sorry when a person makes the choice to give Scientology all of their money? I don't see a problem with it. After seeing the gullibility of many theists first hand, I've sometimes wondered about opening up a Branch and racking it in myself
(3) Burka ban.
IMO The French want a Pansy Nanny State. The French feelings about the Burka may be somewhat akin to a Black person's feelings when seeing people walking around wearing Klanhoods with eye slits. But, to tell you the truth, most people in the world don't like to see women walking around under Burkas. I suppose we can thank 6th century Medieval Christianity and a couple of kooks for that. :shrug: I'm not French, but the last I could tell, it's legal to wear a Burka in France. It may not be legal to wear a Burka to work in France. Neither is it legal to wear a G-string nut-sack and a rubber chicken on your head to work, even if wearing a G-string nut-sack and a rubber chicken on your head is part of a person's whacked out religious ideals. And get this SAM, if people were wearing G-string nut-sack and a rubber chicken on their heads as a part of their asinine belief system - yeah, people would probably vote to make it illegal.
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Now, I wonder SAM, can you address a couple of my questions.
(1) Why is it illegal for a Hindu working and living in KSA, to build a temple to her Gods to worship in?
(2) Why are Pakistani Ahmadiyya Muslims legally discriminated against by other Pakistani Muslims?
(3) Why do 80% of Indonesian Muslims support legally banning Indonesian Ahmadiyya Muslims from practicing their faith?
MAYBE try to answer these questions without blaming the CIA, huh .....? Pretty Please with a rubber chicken on top lol ;p heh... think we can do that
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Same reason the French don't want Scientologists I guess. Or the Swiss don't want minarets. Or the Americans throw Muslim leaders [who are devout and fundamentalist] into isolated prison cells cut off from all access to media and family. Or the Chinese don't want the Falun Gong. Or NATO doesn't want the Taliban. Or...:shrug:
Ah I see. So there is a reasonable reason for Americans to put devout Muslims who were arrested for terrorism, indicted for lesser charges and then put indefinitely in prison under isolation from media. Why is there no public scrutiny for these very legal undertakings? Why are they denied access to media? Why doesn't the US release a list of names so everyone can know what these civil rights activists, physicians and heads of charity are put in prison [under isolation] for?
It seems to me that Americans have as much to fear from these Muslims as the Iranians have to fear from the Bahai. Do you think the reason the Iranians have put the Bahai into prison for 20 years is because "there is reason to believe they are trying to recruit killers to carry out violent attacks on Iranian Citizens."? After all they were indicted for espionage so there must be evidence against them, yes? At least, the Bahai know when their sentence will be up. Do you think those in the CMU will ever get out?
You separate thread on CMUS
http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=103508
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And around the world we go again.... so, SAM, what exactly would that reason be?
Why is it legal for Muslims to build Mosques in Tokyo but it's not legal for a Japanese living in KSA to build Shinto Temples in Mecca?
Why is it that Pakistani Ahmadiyya Muslims are legally discriminated against by other Pakistani Muslims but Indian Muslims are not legally discriminated against by Hindu Indians?
Why is it that a whooping 80% of Indonesian Muslims support legally banning this tiny tiny minority group of Ahmadiyya Muslims from practicing their faith, while more than 80% of Christian Americans support American Muslims' right to practice their faith in the USA (even after we were attacked on 9/11)?
This seems very confusing to me. What do you think the answers are SAM?
Why is it that Pakistani Ahmadiyya Muslims are legally discriminated against by other Pakistani Muslims but Indian Muslims are not legally discriminated against by Hindu Indians?
Why is it that a whooping 80% of Indonesian Muslims support legally banning this tiny tiny minority group of Ahmadiyya Muslims from practicing their faith, while more than 80% of Christian Americans support American Muslims' right to practice their faith in the USA (even after we were attacked on 9/11)?
This seems very confusing to me. What do you think the answers are SAM?
Have the Baha'i flown a couple jet airliners full of women and children into building in Tehran? Do the Baha'i blow up trains full of women and children traveling to work? Do the Baha'i walk into night clubs of kids dancing and having fun and detonate suicide belts murdering teenagers for the crime of having a dance? Do the Baha'i burn women and children in the homes for the crime of being heretics? DO the Baha'i hang homosexuals and burn down churches?
If so, then yeah, I say SuperMax those f*cking ass holes.
No but looking at whats happening on either side of Iran, I'd say the Iranians have a pretty good case to suspect any one with links to western terrorist states
Ja?
Same reason as before. They probably think its better for their state. The Swiss had a referendum for minarets so we know what the people want, ditto the French who debated the burqa ban. Similarly, the Indonesians and Pakistanis. They don't want people who seem irrational to them spreading their irrational ideas? I mean just look into your own heart. How do you feel about devout Muslims being indefinitely put into isolation in American prisons? Thats probably how the Iranians feel about the Bahai and the Indonesians about the Ahmediya.
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I wrote how I feel in the other thread. I think I was being pretty objective. Having had a brother spend 10 years in prison, I know it's not the end of the world and yeah, sometimes people do things that are stupid. Sometimes they get let off, other times the book comes down hard. I remember my brother crying knowing that selling a pound of pot just lost him his entire 20s. Oh, and of course the penal system is far far far from perfect. It's probably one of the least perfect institutions on the planet. Lot of screwed up people in prison which is a f*cked up hole.
Now, I don't find your answer satisfactory try again. You've barely addressed half the question. Also, I asked why Japan DOES allow Mosques while KSA does NOT allow Shinto Shrines. You answered from the KSA POV. I wasn't asking about KSA, I'm asking about Japan. Why ARE the Japanese tolerant enough to allow Muslims to come into their country, build a Mosque that specifically denigrates Japanese faiths, while the Muslims in KSA wouldn't allow Japanese to build a Shrine that doesn't? Why ARE the Japanese, Americans and Indian so open-minded and tolerant?
Is it really that difficult to be objective of your own faith? I mean look at me. Atheism is not perfect. Atheism is not the answer. Atheism is probably not the appropriate for most people, and may well never be. At least while we're still able to die. Which seems to be the case for a long time to come. People need hope of a better life. Atheism doesn't provide that. People like religious tradition. I like religious tradition. See how simple that is.
Now, why are the Japanese able to see past their own insecurities and the Saudi's can not. For craps sake, we're talking about Pakistanis killing their own people. Indonesian shitting on their people with the same culture. And here we have Americans and Japanese actually allowing in people with a whole different set of cultural norms set up a religious institution that pisses on the country's faiths they've come to live in. THAT takes some God Damn open mindedness. Think about that for a moment. Just what level of civility a whole society must reach to be THAT tolerant. It'd be like Black Africans letting WASPs come set up shop. It sort of says something.
Now, I don't find your answer satisfactory try again. You've barely addressed half the question. Also, I asked why Japan DOES allow Mosques while KSA does NOT allow Shinto Shrines. You answered from the KSA POV. I wasn't asking about KSA, I'm asking about Japan. Why ARE the Japanese tolerant enough to allow Muslims to come into their country, build a Mosque that specifically denigrates Japanese faiths, while the Muslims in KSA wouldn't allow Japanese to build a Shrine that doesn't? Why ARE the Japanese, Americans and Indian so open-minded and tolerant?
Is it really that difficult to be objective of your own faith? I mean look at me. Atheism is not perfect. Atheism is not the answer. Atheism is probably not the appropriate for most people, and may well never be. At least while we're still able to die. Which seems to be the case for a long time to come. People need hope of a better life. Atheism doesn't provide that. People like religious tradition. I like religious tradition. See how simple that is.
Now, why are the Japanese able to see past their own insecurities and the Saudi's can not. For craps sake, we're talking about Pakistanis killing their own people. Indonesian shitting on their people with the same culture. And here we have Americans and Japanese actually allowing in people with a whole different set of cultural norms set up a religious institution that pisses on the country's faiths they've come to live in. THAT takes some God Damn open mindedness. Think about that for a moment. Just what level of civility a whole society must reach to be THAT tolerant. It'd be like Black Africans letting WASPs come set up shop. It sort of says something.
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