50 reasons why religion is B.S.

[chris4355]

bored, feel like going through some deep thinking...

sorry if some of those sound similar

1) There are too many religions, how does a believer know he picked the right one?
2) Offers religious people the wrong understanding of the world they live in
3) Has caused many wars
4) Further separates and classifies people
5) Full of contradictions
6) No proof other than the inability to disprove
7) Does not agree with science
8) Disrespects the hard work of the scientific community
9) Religious claims have yet to have scientific backing
10) People do not need religion to have morals (ex: learn to respect others, not kill or steal)
11) Waste of time
12) Waste of money
13) Waste of space
14) Wasted of lives
15) All churches would be better off being shelter for poor people
16) Religion unites people for the wrong reasons
17) Leaders often times use religion to bring their people to their sides
18) Most religions are outdated and lack any historical backing
19) No scientific or supernatural occurrences have been discovered yet
20) Religions change and evolve overtime depending on the general populations beliefs
21) Does not explain life before life
22) No way to know what comes after death
23) Easily accepted by naïve people
24) Religions do not respect each other
25) Religion does not make people more comfortable
26) Religions are corrupt in many levels
27) Though different in names, most major religions are all similar, somewhat proving that they really come from the same source
28) If god knows the future then there is no free will
29) Has caused hate crimes
30) Heavily religious countries have not shown to be “better” off
31) Discriminates against free thinkers
32) Discriminates against harmless people with different beliefs and sexual orientations
33) Can give probable cause for anyone to do anything “I slit her throat because god told me to”
34) Many animals have been killed due to religious sacrifices
35) Does not disprove atheism legitimately
36) Operates on scaring believers by using places like hell and eternal punishment to keep them in line
37) Many people have been killed due to religious sacrifices
38) Religions are taught in schools as fact
39) Many children are raised religious at a young age without a choice to reason and choose what they want to believe
40) Prayers have yet to have been proven to be effective
41) No “miracles” have been documented
42) Religion does not offer a valid explanation of the world around us
43) Religion confuses people
44) Some religions do not allow its believers to question their faith
45) Religion requires blind faith
46) Religion is not the cause for technological advancements, in fact, it only slows it down
47) Older religions have trouble accounting for new scientific discoveries that directly contracting the religion
48) God has yet to show up and give us an update on wtf is going on
49) Things such as guardian angels, reincarnation, resurrection have yet to have been proven or witnessed
50) Even the most religious people tend to mourn and fear death, despite the fact that heaven appears to be a very nice place – contradiction?

discuss.

 

[Cyperium]

bored, feel like going through some deep thinking...

sorry if some of those sound similar

1) There are too many religions, how does a believer know he picked the right one?
2) Offers religious people the wrong understanding of the world they live in
3) Has caused many wars
4) Further separates and classifies people
5) Full of contradictions
6) No proof other than the inability to disprove
7) Does not agree with science
8) Disrespects the hard work of the scientific community
9) Religious claims have yet to have scientific backing
10) People do not need religion to have morals (ex: learn to respect others, not kill or steal)
11) Waste of time
12) Waste of money
13) Waste of space
14) Wasted of lives
15) All churches would be better off being shelter for poor people
16) Religion unites people for the wrong reasons
17) Leaders often times use religion to bring their people to their sides
18) Most religions are outdated and lack any historical backing
19) No scientific or supernatural occurrences have been discovered yet
20) Religions change and evolve overtime depending on the general populations beliefs
21) Does not explain life before life
22) No way to know what comes after death
23) Easily accepted by naïve people
24) Religions do not respect each other
25) Religion does not make people more comfortable
26) Religions are corrupt in many levels
27) Though different in names, most major religions are all similar, somewhat proving that they really come from the same source
28) If god knows the future then there is no free will
29) Has caused hate crimes
30) Heavily religious countries have not shown to be “better” off
31) Discriminates against free thinkers
32) Discriminates against harmless people with different beliefs and sexual orientations
33) Can give probable cause for anyone to do anything “I slit her throat because god told me to”
34) Many animals have been killed due to religious sacrifices
35) Does not disprove atheism legitimately
36) Operates on scaring believers by using places like hell and eternal punishment to keep them in line
37) Many people have been killed due to religious sacrifices
38) Religions are taught in schools as fact
39) Many children are raised religious at a young age without a choice to reason and choose what they want to believe
40) Prayers have yet to have been proven to be effective
41) No “miracles” have been documented
42) Religion does not offer a valid explanation of the world around us
43) Religion confuses people
44) Some religions do not allow its believers to question their faith
45) Religion requires blind faith
46) Religion is not the cause for technological advancements, in fact, it only slows it down
47) Older religions have trouble accounting for new scientific discoveries that directly contracting the religion
48) God has yet to show up and give us an update on wtf is going on
49) Things such as guardian angels, reincarnation, resurrection have yet to have been proven or witnessed
50) Even the most religious people tend to mourn and fear death, despite the fact that heaven appears to be a very nice place – contradiction?

discuss.

I think we are here for a reason. Existence itself is important and there should be a reason or a purpouse of some kind.

God is unknown to us, hidden. But I believe He exists; in what form we can't comprehend.

Most of the time I think that we don't let our minds outside the little space we are in, instead of looking at the possibilities.

Those reasons that you stated are all just doubts, try the reasons for belief if you want to believe. Every doubt seems to me to have a counterpart.

One time I had some kind of fight inside my head ( ), I don't know why but...anyhow, it was perfect arguments from both sides and just when you thought that a side had won the argument the other side came with a even better one, it was like a game of pingpong, it just continued all the time... so you just have to pick side. What makes more meaning to you? You don't need to be that devoted if you think it wastes time, it haven't wasted my time and many problems seems to be solved and you get motivation to do nice things.

I think we should be careful not to rule out things just because we don't have final evidence (and even if we think we have there might just be a better argument, in fact I think it goes on like that forever, truth is eternal somehow - well, only God knows for sure).


BTW, your arguments seem to suggest you think of religion as a person (?) it's just a word, the individuals are what is important (and not to see them as a group either, individual individuals are important).

 

[buckybeam]

ya know i was about to start a list arguing every point you make... i stopped. such generalizing statements are a sign of bigotry and hate. that's all. one could write a similar list about blacks, Germans, communists, capitalists etc..... and all it would be is a spouting of religious, racial, ethnic and political hate speech.

what you have written is a testament about you!

 

[Norsefire]

ya know i was about to start a list arguing every point you make... i stopped. such generalizing statements are a sign of bigotry and hate. that's all. one could write a similar list about blacks, Germans, communists, capitalists etc..... and all it would be is a spouting of religious, racial, ethnic and political hate speech.

what you have written is a testament about you!

Exactly.

I could say all Germans are racist nazis, but that isnt the case.

 

[(Q)]

ya know i was about to start a list arguing every point you make... i stopped. such generalizing statements are a sign of bigotry and hate. that's all. one could write a similar list about blacks, Germans, communists, capitalists etc..... and all it would be is a spouting of religious, racial, ethnic and political hate speech.

Come now bucky boy, you know damn well you can't refute a single point made. Don't be making up lame excuses.

 

[buckybeam]

I saw it, the first time. I would just like to say that I greatly appreciate your participation in this discussion.

I hope you all understand that half these points are jokes. It was just hard to reach 50 - things like this help me go to sleep.

Still, I'd like to see someone try to answer most of the good points, oh and if you can't figure out which ones those are don't bother.

well now that you put it that way.

the good points have been argued in and out of religious circles. truth is we will never know, until we die. if the atheists are right, we will never know at all.

 

[codanblad]

cool response, cyperium. i think u brought up some good points.

 

[Cyperium]

cool response, cyperium. i think u brought up some good points.

Thank you

I'm tired of atheists making lists of doubts that I have had but solved satisfactionally in my own view. I know there was a time when I had no doubts, and I know that everything makes sense, I was very young but no additional knowledge was needed to understand that it was right. God is above all that. I thought that whatever happens I should never let go of my belief cause it's true now, and nothing can change that even if I perceive differently later.

 

[(Q)]

I think we are here for a reason. Existence itself is important and there should be a reason or a purpouse of some kind.

Maybe there should be. Wishing it to be doesn't make it true.

God is unknown to us, hidden. But I believe He exists; in what form we can't comprehend.

That could be said about anything we wish to believe exists.

Most of the time I think that we don't let our minds outside the little space we are in, instead of looking at the possibilities.

If hidden from us, what is there to look for??

I think we should be careful not to rule out things just because we don't have final evidence (and even if we think we have there might just be a better argument, in fact I think it goes on like that forever, truth is eternal somehow - well, only God knows for sure).

If god is hidden, then there can be no argument other than the fact you want to believe. Any logical argument would destroy that position.

 

[Tnerb]

God is unknown to us, hidden. But I believe He exists; in what form we can't comprehend.

51 reasons religion is B.S.:

The comprehension of god by intellectual people leads to further absurdities until God in the previous sense is percieved as erased and irrelevant!

 

[Tnerb]

God is above all that.

Unhonest and holding back. hehehar

 

[Cyperium]

bored, feel like going through some deep thinking...

sorry if some of those sound similar

1) There are too many religions, how does a believer know he picked the right one?

Destiny? Gods will? Finding God? In Christianity Jesus will search for the lost.

2) Offers religious people the wrong understanding of the world they live in

Nobody knows for sure the right understanding of the world they live in, besides most of the understanding comes from the individual that see it in the perspective of their own world.

3) Has caused many wars

Mostly motivated by selfish needs (thus is not a fault of religion itself), this is also not a falsification of any religion or even a indication that it is BS.

4) Further separates and classifies people

That's just a consequence of individuality and common traits. A fact of life, people are being classified this way mostly because they want to belong to a group or social community. You could say that music is bad also because you like a certain genre.

5) Full of contradictions

Depends on religion of course, from a christian viewpoint it is possible that translators/interpretors of Gods vision to them could be at fault, but not to a great extent, and the most important goes through.

6) No proof other than the inability to disprove

Religion doesn't deal with proof, it's a consequence of the need to see things that are hidden.

7) Does not agree with science

Science doesn't agree with science for the most part and science only say that they don't know if God exists or not and thus making it a non-scientific issue as it cannot be proven. So to say that it doesn't agree with science is not true, science simply can't take it on.

8) Disrespects the hard work of the scientific community

See above.

9) Religious claims have yet to have scientific backing

See above.

10) People do not need religion to have morals (ex: learn to respect others, not kill or steal)

Christianity give an understanding for morals that most people don't follow but should. The morals in community today is at fault. I don't say that all christians are better than all else, but at least the teaching is there and we should follow it. Then again, humans are humans and christians are not a different kind of humans and neither are atheists (which you seem to suggest somehow?)

11) Waste of time

Wasn't this? You said it was? Most religions I think would agree that we shouldn't waste our time as it is too important, we don't live THAT long after all.

12) Waste of money

Purely individual, I haven't wasted any money, the amount I have given for charity has pleasured me.

13) Waste of space

? one of the joke points I guess...

14) Wasted of lives

See above.

15) All churches would be better off being shelter for poor people

Churches can be a shelter for poor people, it depends on the priest I guess. Churches are also used in emergency situations when people need advice or comfort because something tragical have happened to them, and are also often used as a gathering point after a tragedy.

16) Religion unites people for the wrong reasons

And the wrong reason is to love one another? What would be the right reason?

17) Leaders often times use religion to bring their people to their sides

As leaders often use anything they can use to bring people to their sides, it has to do with the leaders not with religion itself.

18) Most religions are outdated and lack any historical backing

Truth is never outdated, and the messages in Christianity is timeless and was made to be timeless because the Old Testament was outdated.

19) No scientific or supernatural occurrences have been discovered yet

I think God wants us to believe individually and a objective evidence could severely damage that option.

20) Religions change and evolve overtime depending on the general populations beliefs

The Bible states that as the knowledge of the world grows so will the knowledge of God.

21) Does not explain life before life

It's not about explaining. "You have trouble understanding the world, how do you think you can understand the heavenly things?" Jesus said something similiar to that to explain why he was talking in images instead of plain words.

22) No way to know what comes after death

And that makes religion BS?

23) Easily accepted by naïve people

If you want things easily accepted then turn to science that delivers it right to you without any need for actual thought (that is if you don't want to, but there's no need is there since you think everything science says is correct, or do you?)

24) Religions do not respect each other

Yes we do, individual people often don't respect eachother, I would gladly do Ramadan if I were to upset a Muslim otherwise (the Bible teaches us not to be disrespectful to others faith).

25) Religion does not make people more comfortable

That's a issue for the individual people, not for religion.

26) Religions are corrupt in many levels

I believe people have tried to find the correct meaning in the highest possible way.

27) Though different in names, most major religions are all similar, somewhat proving that they really come from the same source

Or that they are based on the same basic truth or inspiration.

28) If god knows the future then there is no free will

This is a whole other thread...

29) Has caused hate crimes

Everything may cause hate. The hater finds his/her reasons.

30) Heavily religious countries have not shown to be “better” off

Not worse off either, depends on how you look at it, America and Afghanistan are both heavily religious, but have different problems.

31) Discriminates against free thinkers

I consider myself a free thinker, so I don't think so, actually christianity has helped me to think more freely, but it warns me not to dig too deep into the unknown since many have lost their way doing that.

32) Discriminates against harmless people with different beliefs and sexual orientations

So does the law of society, christianity teaches us that the law is secondary and to do what we understand to be good things towards one another is primary, that is serving God, to love your neighbor as yourself (the law of the kings and prophets).

33) Can give probable cause for anyone to do anything “I slit her throat because god told me to”

"Many false prophets have come forth and given teachings in my name but I haven't spoken to them - don't believe them", something similiar to that God said about the nature of the false prophets that claimed to have visions from God.

34) Many animals have been killed due to religious sacrifices

Many animals have been killed because we eat animals.

35) Does not disprove atheism legitimately

See above (a long way up).

36) Operates on scaring believers by using places like hell and eternal punishment to keep them in line

Most people don't believe because they are scared for hell or eternal punishment, but rather because they feel that God loves them and they want to love Him back.

37) Many people have been killed due to religious sacrifices

Not really applicable in my case as a christian.

38) Religions are taught in schools as fact

Not in Sweden, you might want to move here, we are the most secular land in the world. They teach religion as a myth, but didn't keep me from having my faith, and cannot keep anyone from having the faith they have (they can't tamper with our internal thoughts and neither can the atheists)

39) Many children are raised religious at a young age without a choice to reason and choose what they want to believe

They can reason and choose. I had many reasonable thoughts when I were young and I do think that others have too. The child will take on a certain degree of a parents personality and view about things, it's just natural. As long as it is a healthy belief there is no harm.

40) Prayers have yet to have been proven to be effective

Everything will work out the best way, even if we don't understand how or why.

41) No “miracles” have been documented

Many have been, but not proven to be the direct influence of God. Just search on YouTube for "lucky bastard" lol

42) Religion does not offer a valid explanation of the world around us

It does for me. But then I see the world as more than dust and particles.

43) Religion confuses people

People are confused about most things, but the Bible states that God is not the author of confusion.

44) Some religions do not allow its believers to question their faith

Anyone is free to question their faith (and anything else) in their own right. We are made that way.

45) Religion requires blind faith

Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. So faith is to see the hidden, we have other mechanisms for things that isn't hidden, like knowledge and perception and so on...that we have a mechanism for things that are hidden is only natural and is in no way blind as it is also a mechanism for deep complex structures that we can't put into words (intuition) but is very helpful nevertheless in situations that are to be solved in a way that would seem illogical if only pondered by the conscious.

46) Religion is not the cause for technological advancements, in fact, it only slows it down

Religion often offers a moral standpoint to avoid things that could be bad for us that we don't have the full understanding to know why it would be bad. I think - for example - that it would be bad to make conscious feeling robots, or a computer that "simulates" awareness. I have my doubts as to how and if it can be done, but nevertheless it offers some disturbing possibilities.

47) Older religions have trouble accounting for new scientific discoveries that directly contracting the religion

Religion isn't scientific and the worldview is that of the interpreters that lived in that time. If that worldview is to be correct in a higher view is left untold though. As a example could be the 'earth is flat' which the Bible seems to suggest, but if you can see a globe in all angles and points at once what shape would it take on then? (that's only for those that believe that the Bible should be interpreted as true word for word, which I don't think is the case). If you read a story and it carries with it some fantasy stories which are only to explain a aspect of truth through the fantasy, then the actual frame of reference doesn't matter but the truth stays the same. Certain parts of the Bible has that 'stance' that you feel that this isn't historical the same way as the other parts and are trying to tell me something else. It is said in the Bible that you can only interpret the Bible correctly using the same inspiration that gave rise to it, in other words the inspiration from God.

48) God has yet to show up and give us an update on wtf is going on

Jesus sent the 'helper' to help us through everything. "If I don't go away, I can't send the helper to you", something to that effect he said.

49) Things such as guardian angels, reincarnation, resurrection have yet to have been proven or witnessed

I'm sure it has been witnessed, but I made a point a long way up that it isn't about proving it to the whole world cause it might have consequences that would change everything to the worse.

50) Even the most religious people tend to mourn and fear death, despite the fact that heaven appears to be a very nice place – contradiction?

Mourning is because we have to live our lives without that person. Fear of death is a natural fear of what is to come, nobody knows for sure, even those with faith, and there is nothing that says that it will be easy after death. The fear of change comes to play here also, we have to accept that 'now everything is going to change'. It's not that easy even for those of strong faith.


You can discuss with me the 'free will contra destiny' in the thread Cris made where he claims to have proven God cannot exist.

 

[Cyperium]

Maybe there should be. Wishing it to be doesn't make it true.

I've seen alot of meaningful things, and sometimes I see more meaning than other times, which suggest that there can be a whole lot more meaning than I have the ability to see. Which in turn suggest that if you have even had a glimpse of the truth (the actual Truth) then it may stay with you for the rest of your life, cause you know that at that time it was true.

You could argue that the truth is nothing by itself and that it needs arguments, but in my view and understanding the truth doesn't need that.

That could be said about anything we wish to believe exists.

Perhaps.

If hidden from us, what is there to look for??

For you it is impossible, but for God anything is possible.

The Bible states that "If you can't love your brother that you can see, then how could you love God that you can't see?", so to love other people is to love God.

If god is hidden, then there can be no argument other than the fact you want to believe. Any logical argument would destroy that position.

For me faith is something of its own, and not something that is buildt on arguments.

 

[Ophiolite]

1.There are too many religions, how does a believer know he picked the right one?
All religions may be the right one. The act of belief may be more important than the belief itself.
2)Offers religious people the wrong understanding of the world they live in
Only if you are foolish enough to take them literally
3)Has caused many wars
No. Have provided a convenient excuse for man to express his innately violent and territorial character.
4)Further separates and classifies people
You must have a different manual from me. Because a politician in a political party is corrupt that does not mean the principles of the party are corrupt.
5)Full of contradictions
Jeeze. Just like life. Did you want it all wrapped up in pretty pink wrapping paper then?
6)No proof other than the inability to disprove
Now your thinking of all those creationist wankers. That's not a religion, that's a character defecit.
7)Does not agree with science
Crap, bar the previous note.
8)Disrespects the hard work of the scientific community
As above. Tell me, I've often wondered. What colour is the bottom of the barrel?
9)Religious claims have yet to have scientific backing
Religion and science are separate ways of appreciating the world. They complement, not support each other.
10)People do not need religion to have morals (ex: learn to respect others, not kill or steal)
And religions do not claim that they do. Some ignorant practitioners of some religions may claim this.
11)Waste of time
The whole fucking thing is a waste of time, but did you have anything else planned?
12)Waste of money
:wtf:
13)Waste of space

14)Wasted of lives
I don't know. A lot of evangelical concerns teach people how to write correctly. Perhaps you could enrol.
15)All churches would be better off being shelter for poor people
Unsubstantiated opinion that can be applied equally to bowling alleys, crack houses and Wallmart stores..
16)Religion unites people for the wrong reasons
Politics disunites people for the wrong reasons.


This is getting boring.

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

This is getting boring.

That qualifies as #51. Ever notice when the BS starts flying just how boring it gets. Evidence of that is duly present in this point/counterpoint repetition of just about everything and anything that's been hammered to death in this subforum.

 

[Mr.TopSecret]

Destiny? Gods will? Finding God? In Christianity Jesus will search for the lost.
Nobody knows for sure the right understanding of the world they live in, besides most of the understanding comes from the individual that see it in the perspective of their own world.
Mostly motivated by selfish needs (thus is not a fault of religion itself), this is also not a falsification of any religion or even a indication that it is BS.
That's just a consequence of individuality and common traits. A fact of life, people are being classified this way mostly because they want to belong to a group or social community. You could say that music is bad also because you like a certain genre.
Depends on religion of course, from a christian viewpoint it is possible that translators/interpretors of Gods vision to them could be at fault, but not to a great extent, and the most important goes through.
Religion doesn't deal with proof, it's a consequence of the need to see things that are hidden.
Science doesn't agree with science for the most part and science only say that they don't know if God exists or not and thus making it a non-scientific issue as it cannot be proven. So to say that it doesn't agree with science is not true, science simply can't take it on.
See above.
See above.
Christianity give an understanding for morals that most people don't follow but should. The morals in community today is at fault. I don't say that all christians are better than all else, but at least the teaching is there and we should follow it. Then again, humans are humans and christians are not a different kind of humans and neither are atheists (which you seem to suggest somehow?)
Wasn't this? You said it was? Most religions I think would agree that we shouldn't waste our time as it is too important, we don't live THAT long after all.
Purely individual, I haven't wasted any money, the amount I have given for charity has pleasured me.
? one of the joke points I guess...
See above.
Churches can be a shelter for poor people, it depends on the priest I guess. Churches are also used in emergency situations when people need advice or comfort because something tragical have happened to them, and are also often used as a gathering point after a tragedy.
And the wrong reason is to love one another? What would be the right reason?
As leaders often use anything they can use to bring people to their sides, it has to do with the leaders not with religion itself.
Truth is never outdated, and the messages in Christianity is timeless and was made to be timeless because the Old Testament was outdated.
I think God wants us to believe individually and a objective evidence could severely damage that option.
The Bible states that as the knowledge of the world grows so will the knowledge of God.
It's not about explaining. "You have trouble understanding the world, how do you think you can understand the heavenly things?" Jesus said something similiar to that to explain why he was talking in images instead of plain words.
And that makes religion BS?
If you want things easily accepted then turn to science that delivers it right to you without any need for actual thought (that is if you don't want to, but there's no need is there since you think everything science says is correct, or do you?)
Yes we do, individual people often don't respect eachother, I would gladly do Ramadan if I were to upset a Muslim otherwise (the Bible teaches us not to be disrespectful to others faith).
That's a issue for the individual people, not for religion.
I believe people have tried to find the correct meaning in the highest possible way.
Or that they are based on the same basic truth or inspiration.
This is a whole other thread...
Everything may cause hate. The hater finds his/her reasons.
Not worse off either, depends on how you look at it, America and Afghanistan are both heavily religious, but have different problems.
I consider myself a free thinker, so I don't think so, actually christianity has helped me to think more freely, but it warns me not to dig too deep into the unknown since many have lost their way doing that.
So does the law of society, christianity teaches us that the law is secondary and to do what we understand to be good things towards one another is primary, that is serving God, to love your neighbor as yourself (the law of the kings and prophets).
"Many false prophets have come forth and given teachings in my name but I haven't spoken to them - don't believe them", something similiar to that God said about the nature of the false prophets that claimed to have visions from God.
Many animals have been killed because we eat animals.
See above (a long way up).
Most people don't belief because they are scared for hell or eternal punishment, but rather because they feel that God loves them and they want to love Him back.
Not really applicable in my case as a christian.
Not in Sweden, you might want to move here, we are the most secular land in the world. They teach religion as a myth, but didn't keep me from having my faith, and cannot keep anyone from having the faith they have (they can't tamper with our internal thoughts and neither can the atheists)
They can reason and choose. I had many reasonable thoughts when I were young and I do think that others have too. The child will take on a certain degree of a parents personality and view about things, it's just natural. As long as it is a healthy belief there is no harm.
Everything will work out the best way, even if we don't understand how or why.
Many have been, but not proven to be the direct influence of God. Just search on YouTube for "lucky bastard" lol
It does for me. But then I see the world as more than dust and particles.
People are confused about most things, but the Bible states that God is not the author of confusion.
Anyone is free to question their faith (and anything else) in the own right. We are made that way.
Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. So faith is to see the hidden, we have other mechanisms for things that isn't hidden, like knowledge and perception and so on...that we have a mechanism for things that are hidden is only natural and is in no way blind as it is also a mechanism for deep complex structures that we can't put into words (intuition) but is very helpful nevertheless in situations that are to be solved in a way that would seem illogical if only pondered by the conscious.
Religion often offers a moral standpoint to avoid things that could be bad for us that we don't have the full understanding to know why it would be bad. I think - for example - that it would be bad to make conscious feeling robots, or a computer that "simulates" awareness. I have my doubts as to how and if it can be done, but nevertheless it offers some disturbing possibilities.
Religion isn't scientific and the worldview is that of the interpreters that lived in that time. If that worldview is to be correct in a higher view is left untold though. As a example could be the 'earth is flat' which the Bible seems to suggest, but if you can see a globe in all angles and points at once what shape would it take on then? (that's only for those that believe that the Bible should be interpreted as true word for word, which I don't think is the case). If you read a story and it carries with it some fantasy stories which are only to explain a aspect of truth through the fantasy, then the actual frame of reference doesn't matter but the truth stays the same. Certain parts of the Bible has that 'stance' that you feel that this isn't historical the same way as the other parts and are trying to tell me something else. It is said in the Bible that you can only interpret the Bible correctly using the same inspiration that gave rise to it, in other words the inspiration from God.
Jesus sent the 'helper' to help us through everything. "If I don't go away, I can't send the helper to you", something to that effect he said.
I'm sure it has been witnessed, but I made a point a long way up that it isn't about proving it to the whole world cause it might have consequences that would change everything to the worse.
Mourning is because we have to live our lives without that person. Fear of death is a natural fear of what is to come, nobody knows for sure, even those with faith, and there is nothing that says that it will be easy after death. The fear of change comes to play here also, we have to accept that 'now everything is going to change'. It's not that easy even for those of strong faith.


You can discuss with me the 'free will contra destiny' in the thread Chris made where he claims to have proven God cannot exist.

This still dosnt prove anything. It just brings more questions, opinions. Maybe that is why many say you have to have faith, to keep the many of questions of religion to a minimum.

 

[Ophiolite]

That qualifies as #51. Ever notice when the BS starts flying just how boring it gets. Evidence of that is duly present in this point/counterpoint repetition of just about everything and anything that's been hammered to death in this subforum.

I should have known I would feel that way, but somehow I felt faith would see me through to the end.:bawl:

 

[Mr.TopSecret]

I should have known I would feel that way, but somehow I felt faith would see me through to the end.:bawl:

You got a point

 

[Cyperium]

This still dosnt prove anything. It just brings more questions, opinions. Maybe that is why many say you have to have faith, to keep the many of questions of religion to a minimum.

I think so too. I didn't want to prove anything, ever since I joined sciforums I've always wanted to give options to show that there can be just as good arguments from the 'other side', not to say that any argument is final.

Sometimes it may be easy to rule something out by just simply stating what is known about the world, but since God is unknown to us we have to find arguments that...are harder to find so to say. That's why I don't make any claim of some argument being the best it can be - cause I simply can't know that, I just try the best I can to avoid the grief of doubt that the opposing arguments may provide to some people (also including me sometimes).

 

[Cyperium]

51 reasons religion is B.S.:

The comprehension of god by intellectual people leads to further absurdities until God in the previous sense is percieved as erased and irrelevant!

We shouldn't think we can comprehend everything either, also what is perceived as "erased" and irrelevant doesn't in actuality mean that it is.