2045: The Year Man Becomes Immortal

[David Worth]

You appear to be using "entity" and "organism" in a manner unfamiliar to me.
How does an "entity" become "trapped in an organism"? And how does it choose to do so?

Let's establish a common ground for the "entity" and "organism" terms.

Did I say that? Did I imply that? No, to both. On the contrary: "so what?" points out that the fact remains, indisputably, that not everyone is free. Which invalidates your original claim.

Yeah, you're right. But things need to change. I was trying to transmit that with the original claim.

And now you're making assumptions.

Ok, what do you think about it then ?

 

[Dywyddyr]

Let's establish a common ground for the "entity" and "organism" terms.

Go ahead: explain how you're using them.

Yeah, you're right. But things need to change. I was trying to transmit that with the original claim.

Okay. Understood.

What do you think about it then ?
Ok, what do you think about it then ?

It's neither here nor there what I think. It's nothing to do with the topic.

 

[David Worth]

Entity: an intelligent existence, with an organism as the support platform.
In our case it's the organism that generates our entity.

Just tell what you think about it, nothing more after ... to reach a conclusion.

 

[Dywyddyr]

Entity: an intelligent existence, with an organism as the support platform.
In our case it's the organism that generates our entity.

So essentially by "entity" you're referring to consciousness/ intellect/ mind.
Okay.

Which doesn't go toward your comment about "being trapped in an organism" (where else would it be?) or "choosing" (unless the "choosing" is simply that our conscious arises in the body we're in...).

Nor does it help to explain your claim that:
Every entity has the freedom to live as long as it wants.

Edit:

Just tell what you think about it, nothing more after ... to reach a conclusion.

I did. This is where people have trouble with me. That is exactly what I think about it. What I think is neither here nor there.

 

[David Worth]

Which doesn't go toward your comment about "being trapped in an organism" (where else would it be?) or "choosing" (unless the "choosing" is simply that our conscious arises in the body we're in...).

Just because you're incapable of choosing at birth, does not make it ok for others to make those choices for you. You're trapped because you have no way out of it, (well not now at least). You get old and die. And why ? because the mechanism refuses to change.

Nor does it help to explain your claim that:
Every entity has the freedom to live as long as it wants.

Yeah, I should have said that it is better to be have that freedom I mentioned earlier, unlike the times when things were / are like that. You don't have to be forcefully bound by this system when making a claim. I was talking from an outside perspective, an unbound one.

Edit:

I did. This is where people have trouble with me. That is exactly what I think about it. What I think is neither here nor there.

Alright. Understood.

 

[Dywyddyr]

Just because you're incapable of choosing at birth, does not make it ok for others to make those choices for you.

Huh? What choices? To "have you born"?
The only other "option" is to not be born, and reduces your subsequent choices considerably.
If we were born fully-functional then we'd be able to complain about choices "made for us" after birth...

Yeah, I should have said that is better to be have that freedom, unlike the times when things were / are like that.

Ah. Got you. When I first read your post (and then comments distinguishing "entity" from "organism") it came across as some sort of "spirits are immortal and they're stuck (temporarily) in a body" or the like. We have a number of people here who consider that *cough* explanation as factual...

 

[Randwolf]

Just because you're incapable of choosing at birth, does not make it ok for others to make those choices for you.

Just because you're incapable of choosing at birth doesn't stop others from making choices in your stead, either. Correct?

You're trapped because you have no way out of it, (well not now at least).

Yes, I agree. This would seem to be a working definition of trapped. (at least for now)

You get old and die.

Why?

And why ? because the mechanism refuses to change.

Oh, I see. Because you choose to do so...

Yeah, I should have said that is better to be have that freedom, unlike the times when things were / are like that.

I'm sorry, what? Could you rephrase that in English for me?

You don't have to be forcefully bound by this system when making a claim.

Of course not. Why would you think that anyone would?

I was talking from an outside perspective, an unbound one.

Unbound? Unbound? Isn't that an antonym of "trapped", such as stated in your original premise? How is it that you escaped?

Alright. Understood.

Maybe there is hope...

 

[David Worth]

Huh? What choices? To "have you born"?
The only other "option" is to not be born, and reduces your subsequent choices considerably.
If we were born fully-functional then we'd be able to complain about choices "made for us" after birth...

The option would be, not to die and not have a limited life span due to an evolutionary mechanism which refuses to change, and be allowed to override, change that, be in control of the platform you have, even if you are integrated in it.

Ah. Got you. When I first read your post (and then comments distinguishing "entity" from "organism") it came across as some sort of "spirits are immortal and they're stuck (temporarily) in a body" or the like. We have a number of people here who consider that *cough* explanation as factual...

No, not at all. I separated the two because only a part of that organism wishes for something else to happen. While the rest follows something else.

 

[Randwolf]

No, not at all.

See? It is difficult...

I separated the two because only a part of that organism wishes for something else to happen. While the rest follows something else.

Which part? What wish? Happen when? What does the "rest" consist of?

Wow. That's a lot of something "elses"...

 

[David Worth]

Randwolf

it's described above

 

[Randwolf]

Randwolf
it's described above

Cool. Could you kindly point out which what it is that is described above?

Sorry, I'm having a slow night here...

 

[David Worth]

I was saying that one mind wishes to overcome the horrible predicament it got involved in. The fact that it gets trapped at birth in a dying body, because the evolution mechanism forces that on you, as a solution.
Well there are alternatives, change the way our organism survives, genetic manipulation, change of the body, etc.

Edit: Removed some line that I thought were hostile.

 

[Randwolf]

I'm not equipped to do that. Guess why ?

Haven't the foggiest idea. But then again, it is raining... :shrug:

Anyway. I was saying that one mind wishes to overcome the horrible predicament it got involved in.

Could you explain what you mean by this? Who's mind?

The fact that it gets trapped at birth in a dying body, because the evolution mechanism forces that on you, as a solution.

I still don't get what this "it" is that gets trapped. ?

Well there are alternatives, change the way our organism survives, genetic manipulation, change of the body, etc.

Exactly. I think this is like, you know, the topic, here, right?

 

[David Worth]

You lost me completely, can you rephrase this ? please.

 

[Randwolf]

You lost me completely, can you rephrase this ? please.

Sure...

“Originally Posted by David Worth
I'm not equipped to do that. Guess why ?”

Haven't the foggiest idea. But then again, it is raining...
Edit: Removed possible hostile response...

“Originally Posted by David Worth
Anyway. I was saying that one mind wishes to overcome the horrible predicament it got involved in.”

Could you explain what you mean by this? Who's mind?
Edit: Do you understand these 10 words?

“Originally Posted by David Worth
The fact that it gets trapped at birth in a dying body, because the evolution mechanism forces that on you, as a solution.”

I still don't get what this "it" is that gets trapped. ?
Edit: How about these 11? Is this where the confusion lies?

“Originally Posted by David Worth
Well there are alternatives, change the way our organism survives, genetic manipulation, change of the body, etc.”

Exactly. I think this is like, you know, the topic, here, right?
Edit: Well, let's see. This is me agreeing with you. As in mutual understanding. Comprende?

 

[David Worth]

Could you explain what you mean by this? Who's mind?
Edit: Do you understand these 10 words?

The mind that gets trapped with hith the body it came (before edit I wrote camed) with, they are the same thing essentially, except the mind has a different will..

I still don't get what this "it" is that gets trapped. ?
Edit: How about these 11? Is this where the confusion lies?

The mind inside the respective body.

Exactly. I think this is like, you know, the topic, here, right?
Edit: Well, let's see. This is me agreeing with you. As in mutual understanding. Comprende?

Okay, got it.

Edit: Hope you understand what I wrote.

 

[Randwolf]

The mind that gets trapped with hith the body it camed with, they are the same thing essentially, except the mind has a different will..

Ok, I'm trying really hard here, so please be patient...

First, what is "hith"?
"camed" - OK, I think I can deal with that one - "came" is most likely. Correct?

So you are saying that the mind and the body are the same thing, or that the mind is part of the body, or something similar. Right?

If so, wouldn't it be great if we could modify that something in such a way as to increase lifespan, intelligence and potential productivity to a point approaching infinity? Kind of like a "singularity"?

If you agree with this, then we are reduced to arguing over the potential feasibility and implementation of said augmentation. Or perhaps your quarrel is with the particular year predicted in the thread title?

The mind inside the respective body.

If I am interpreting this correctly, you are simply reinforcing the idea that the functions of the "mind" arise from an organ within the body. Most likely the brain... Am I getting close?

See above for reply...

Okay, got it.

Do you? Do you really? Say it back to me in your own words - just so I can be assured that no further miscommunication exists.

Edit: Hope you understand what I wrote.

I hope so too... It was a bit confusing there for a moment.

 

[taichitarot]

What part of man becomes immortal then? (1945 in a moment).
i'm mortal already. why would i want to be immortal and which part of me would i choose or do you choose?

Incidentally: the yew tree - nearly immortal - lives for thousands of years -
and loved in Europe and around the world since Brittish Colonialism -
historically was used for the manufacture of sword hilts,
long bows and fighting staffs (though not many people
know this but think yew is something religious).
--------------------------------------------------------
More recently the public turns its attention too cheap
household appliances and electronic equipment - mostly
manufactured in China; which has not had two world wars
nor used you as a weapon. For that, I am thankful.

- good solid post.

 

[Randwolf]

Incidentally: the yew tree - nearly immortal - lives for thousands of years

If only we could all be yew...

 

[Randwolf]

Okay, got it.

Still awaiting confirmation of this... :m: