Let me see now, the US has already decided they would pay for the 'Iron Dome' program designed to protect Israel and will pay for that in addition to what they normally give, this was said not even two weeks ago so no I don't see this shift in dollars you are speaking of coming from the US and makes your missile defense suggestion unnecessary. But I like how you blame the Israeli's and say they allow for their citizens to get killed so they could justify 'vengeance'. Are you also of the belief that the US allowed for 9/11 so they could justify a war in Iraq or Afghanistan?
I don’t know about the “iron dome” program, but if it can 100% prevent Gaza rocket from killing even one or two Israelis, as the suggestion I make in post 115 (old 2006 post) can, then I am strong backer of it. As, even with 1975 technology, it is possible to totally stop these crude rockets and Israel has chosen not to do so I can only conclude, without blaming them, that they need a few Israeli deaths each year to justify the policy they have chosen instead. This is not blaming. This is analysis of the facts including the fact that Israeli has used this same technology for three decades to defend its ships against threats which are 1000 times harder to stop. If you can give some other reason why Israel does not 100% defend Israelis from the Gaza rockets, please do so.
… the retaliation in Afghanistan and Iraq was also a form of revenge right? Soon, if one is to follow your stream of thought, there would be no reason to ever attack anyone or even actively defend yourself using military might because the strong and wealthy nations would be forced to turn the other cheek and concentrate on 'defense'. I get it….
No, not vengeance. I have many times posted fact that 15 of the 9/11 terrorist were Saudi Arabians, but GWB (and his father) have been supported financially for three decades in the political campaigns by the Saudi Royal family so the 9/11 attack was used by GWB as an excuse (but many people of US did want “revenge.”) to attack Iraq. The Government’s motive for that attack was however not revenge, it was the fact Iraq’s very low cost production of oil was benefiting only the France’s Total oil company and the Russian oil field contractors instead of Cheney’s Halliburton. Recall the anti-French fervor that was whipped up & the fact that France highly opposed the invasion of Iraq. Also note that France was not even allowed to bid on post war reconstruction contracts. This caused more than a year delay in restoring telephone service in Baghdad as all the telephone central exchanges were made with French components, which were incompatible with US made ones. SUMMARY: not revenge, GREED.
As for the apology in your plan, you know where jews apologize for their needing a home after the holocaust all I have to say is BOLLOCKS! Why not get the British to apologize to the palestinians? They are the ones who set it up and were in control of the situation. Also I don't see why you should have to apologize to a group who's only sorrow is that they didn't get to be the one with THEIR boot in YOUR face because you see you haven't given one reason, not one, to show that the Palestinians would behave any better with a little bit of power if they had it.
My step 1 is NOT a general apoligy. It is very specific / limited suggestion that Israel pay compensation for the Palestinian home they confiscated to house the influx of European Jews. I think doing this is not only just, but also a useful first step to demonstrate, not only say, that Israel wants peace and justice for the Palestinians.
No one needs to apologize for their existence.
Turkey: What kind of a friend is Turkey that it would send hostile vessels into Israeli water's KNOWING they would react the way they did? Also Turkey also sent a convoy into Egypt and yet I do not hear you saying how Egypt has lost Turkey as a 'friend' over the affair. They didn't kill anyone but they did beat the shit of them when the peaceful aid workers began THROWING ROCKS because Egypt decided they would only allow a handful of the full convoy to cross the border. The answer from the Turk who organized the event was 'Either all goes through or none goes through'. Yeah Turkey is really a very good friend.
“hostile vessels” deliver water purification plant, food , medicine, and come without bearing arms? Get real. Your pro Israel bias is clouding your logic. I am not claiming the flotilla did not have the political objective of ending the blockade, but political objectives sought by delivering aid seem OK to me, not “hostile.”
Peaceful civil disobedience for political change is ok. That is how I helped open restaurants to blacks in Baltimore years ago. That is how Gandhi drove the British from India. It really is the only effect policy to use against a much strong force. I hope the aid ships keep coming, but don’t try to defend themselves with force against well armed commandos.
There is also considerable confusion /lack of logic/ in your mind in that you are claiming (I think) that the “iron dome” can fully protect Israeli yet supporting the blockade as it is now. If your “enemy” can do you no harm, why do you need to blockade peaceful items from entering it? For example, if my suggestion were adopted, then fishing equipment, cloth, etc. could be allowed in, but inspection for attack weapons (better rockets, etc.) imported either across the Gaza border with Egypt or by sea would still be required for a couple of generations (or longer if normal peace between neighboring countries did not exist between the nations of Israel and Palestine).
… The hate you speak of is only being spoken of from the Israeli side. You don't speak of it coming from the Palestinian side.
Totally false. I specifically said “both sides” but I replied to this repeated false charge last night (post 1082). I will even agree that the Palestinian hatred of Israel is more intense, on average, than the other way round. For example, in Israel there are many who think that Israel’s policy is immoral, etc. but very few in Palestine who think firing the Gaza rocket is immoral. Considering the relative amount of suffering each has experienced with the current conflict this is understandable. This intense hate causes quite a few Palestinians to sneak into Israel when they can with an explosive vest, (The border mine field back up by the killer trained dog strip of my suggestion is designed to stop 100% of these terrorist infiltrators.) but extremely few Jews, outside of the army, are doing anything comparable at great personnel risk just to hurt Palestinians. (I said “extremely few” as, if memory serves me correctly, several years ago an orthodox Jews did kill several in the west bank.)
If Israel had impenetrable boarders, then it would not be necessary or desirable to make life miserable for the Palestinians by blocking importation of fishing rods, paper and pencils for school kids, etc. As I have already stated this is a stupid policy as it only recruits martyrs. (When life is sufficiently miserable, as water pumps stop and raw sewerage spills into the street with electric power cut off and your child died for lack of medical services, etc. there is little reason not to strap on a suicide vest.) Again, I am not blaming, only stating facts and trying to show why a change in Israeli policy is needed, FOR ISRAEL’S LONG TERM SECURITY. (The Russian developed infectious anthrax and / or Ebola dust balloons must not come, but they will if no change is made.)
… These are the people of course that Israel is supposed to take back right? Because these kind of people are really know what it means to live in a civil society and how to work for themselves right?
Not allowed fishing rods or cloth. Etc. has a lot to do with the answer.
…Ever wonder why Palestinians allowed their children, their little boys to run around the streets flinging rocks at soldiers who would surely kill one or two of them? … I mean if I were a parent with a young boy and hostility broke out I would keep them inside and I would never allow them to run the streets and throw rocks at men with guns. I mean why would they do that? Is it so they can show a picture of the 12 year old and say how he 'martyred' himself for his country? What kind of responsible person would allow their children to be on the front lines of that? What kind of responsible person who cares about the future generation would have them martyr themselves and face off an army? Hitler also called the children to the front lines when he was losing his war but we don't fucking show him respect for it!
Your life experience and future prospect for your children is very different from that of a Palestinian mother’s. Many think there is no future for their child so let him / her go out and play. That is what I want to change. I.e. let plastic toys be imported, let them go fishing in the Med, Let them have paper and pencils, etc. When you have nothing to live for, and know /believe it is because of Israeli their throwing stones at tanks is understandable. But, note in earlier post I did support Geoff’s idea that the slingshots and marbles ARE weapons – dangerous to Israeli soldiers in the hands of these kids now only throwing rocks. (Years ago I was quite good with a slingshot – at close range I would have had a 50/50 chance of hitting a soldier’s eye. The skull bone behind the eye is very thin. There is a good chance a high velocity marble can enter the brain etc.)
… You place all the blame on Israel simply because its wealthier, stronger and was more successful in the 'who can take what' game but we don't have to live with these choices mate.
Not true and a totally without support statement.
We don't have to live next door to Hamas, we don't have to live next door to people who believe it is their duty to kill us. Even in the States the proximity of the people who would love to attack the US is far enough that we can easily defend ourselves and we don't have suicide bombings.
that is true; however, if the US had done to the Canadians what 60 years of Israeli occupation has done to the Palestinians, I don’t think I would visit Niagara Falls, etc.
Does your missile defense plan stop suicide bombings and IED's and car bombings? Well does it?
Yes, it does. Did you read it? That is why plan includes a boarder mine field, backed up near cites by strip with killer trained attack dogs and deep spikes in the ground containing acoustic sensors to stop tunneling efforts (they also report the location of any mine exploding).
So sorry but your post just seemed to be a bit...well...naive and placing the results of the game wholly on Israel when they are both carrying the burden of blame.
I am sorry that you did not understand it and read into it that I was only blaming Israel. It is true that only Israel is now able (has the resources and power) to make a change for the better. I.e. stop the current, counter-productive, failed, High Kill Ratio policy that only strengthens “terrible for Palestine” leadership like Hamas. If you have any understanding of human nature*, you must know this. Palestinians must have a reason to live, not a reason to die.
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*If lacking that, but you had a little knowledge of history, you would know how populations react to abuse and terror. – For example, the unguided buzz bomb terror weapon the Germans hope would make England give up had only the opposite effect. Etc. I am reminded of old joke:
“The beatings will continue until you learn to love us.”
