Xians,is the search for knowledge wrong?

[Tiassa]

"You will not surely die"... how many people will vouch for the truth of that today?

As opposed to what?

Name one person who won't die.

As opposed to what?

To comment on a segment of your post to Atheroy:

Read the story in Genesis 3 again: their existence and circumstances were cursed - death and suffering begun to rule their lives.

Was this not the will of God?

To take a preemptory swing:

• As opposed to what? Genesis 3 makes it clear that Adam and Eve have yet to take from the Tree of Life. If they do that, they will "become like us," e.g. become like God and live forever. They're going to die, anyway:

Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil; and now, lest he put forth his hand and take of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever" -- therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from which he was taken. (Genesis 3.22-23, RSV)

The difference, in all honesty, seems an automatic ticket to heaven versus Judgment and redemption.

• Was this not the will of God? Genesis 3 also makes it clear that the death and suffering to rule Adam and Eve's life was the will of God. Some have argued that A = B in terms of natural circumstance, but the text doesn't read that way:

Then the LORD God said to the woman, "What is this that you have done?" The woman said, "The serpent beguiled me, and I ate."

The LORD God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this, cursed are you above all cattle, and above all wild animals; upon your belly you shall go, and dust you shall eat all the days of your life. I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her seed; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel."

To the woman he said, "I will greatly multiply your pain in childbearing; in pain you shall bring forth children, yet your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you."

And to Adam he said, "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten of the tree of which I commanded you, `You shall not eat of it,' cursed is the ground because of you; in toil you shall eat of it all the days of your life; thorns and thistles it shall bring forth to you; and you shall eat the plants of the field. In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread till you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken; you are dust, and to dust you shall return." (Genesis 3.13-19, RSV)

In the end, I think the ultimate irony is that Satan was correct; but this seems to be part of what someone meant the other day when they referred to the difference between what is absolutely right and what God says is right. Curious; I had been puzzled about that.

Tell any child to stay out of the cookie jar; is it Satan's doing, or God's? How much power does the Devil really have, anyway?

Lastly, I wanted to comment on your latest response to Atheroy:

You willingly follow your conscience, even though you have no idea where it comes from, why it operates against principles of nature (such as siding with the "weak" - people being picked on), or what it's function is, except to make you feel better about yourself.

"As opposed to what?"

I find an odd conflict there: I don't think anyone really knows whence comes their conscience. Will you do what you know is wrong just because the influences around you tell you that it is God's will? How does one reconcile a conflict of conscience versus God's will?

Simply writing it to God isn't a better answer.

However, you won't find me arguing that the godless way works; people in general tend to avoid the whys and wherefores of their consciences. It's one of the reasons so many discussions around Sciforums, for instance, are condemned to superficiality. What lies beneath frightens most; and those that aren't frightened of it don't exactly look forward to it any more than they do emptying the septic tank.

After all, most would rather wrestle with their brother than wrestle with themselves.

 

[Jenyar]

As opposed to what

The same thing from a different perspective. Not opposed to anything. The deception wasn't in the appearance of things, but in their meaning and significance - and was all the more false for it.

Tell any child to stay out of the cookie jar; is it Satan's doing, or God's? How much power does the Devil really have, anyway?

The power of deception and temptation. We decide whom we subject our wills to, and who we believe.

I find an odd conflict there: I don't think anyone really knows whence comes their conscience. Will you do what you know is wrong just because the influences around you tell you that it is God's will? How does one reconcile a conflict of conscience versus God's will?

Simply writing it to God isn't a better answer.

Your conscience shows no mercy. You cannot be saved from your sins without God. That is not the same as saying that you can ignore your conscience or sin when you have God.

Paul made that clear abundantly. People who knew it wasn't wrong to eat traditionally unclean food were asked to defer from eating it for the sake of those who did think it was still wrong, so as not to damage their faith. If you are convinced it's wrong, don't do it. That supposes an education of faith - the responsibility of those who had been proved of good moral character and humility, those who would become the church elders. And it was their further responsibility to keep track of the temptations and sins that threatened the integrity and relevance of the church.

Why do you think the Bible is considered so valuable, and why we don't constantly add and revise it? Because it provides a constant reference point - something that has been established by God himself through millennia of human experience of faith. People professing to be Christians should not be able to come up with anything that contradicts its premises on their own, but equally they will have no justification for continuing to destroy their lives or lives of others. The Bible asks that we think about things before we accept them, and be willing to reject them even when they seem desireable.

The reverse side is of also true: I know it's right and reasonable to have faith in God, even while perfectly reasonable people are telling me I shouldn't give Him the benefit of the doubt. The reason I believe is because He gave me the benefit of the doubt - the benefit of living among beauty and loved ones in the face of everything that says I shouldn't even exist.