This is a response to the second part of KennyJC's
post 32.
It has been argued that the squibs were compressed air and that if it was from explosives, the squibs would be instantaneous like in a regular demolition. It has also been argued that the speed of the squibs is consistent with air being squeezed out by the falling floors above.
This argument has been handily refuted by 9/11 Research:
Look, if you’re going to say these are explosive squibs, then what kind of bomb explodes slowly? A fart bomb?
When did I say that the explosives exploded slowly? 9/11 Research certainly never says anything of the kind:
High-Velocity "Demolition Squibs" Are Visible in the Twin Towers' Collapses
However, if you take a look at the debris, you'll notice that a lot if not most of the upper debris had the texture of dust or at best sand. It has been argued that the top part of the building held together for at least some of the collapse and that just because one can see concrete breaking up doesn’t mean its just a bit of sand and doesn't weigh anything. Ofcourse all matter weighs -something-. Spread out dust, however, doesn't weigh all that much per cubic meter. It has been argued that the top thirty floors of WTC2 were not mostly dust and did weigh quite a lot, but they were pulverized into dust in mid air anyway; these buildings had no need to 'pancake'; even when falling into thin air they spontaneously disintegrate.
...Just because most of what you saw was dust, does not mean that everything that is falling is dust.
I agree, there were certainly some steel girders being ejected out. But in terms of the concrete, it was mostly pulverized, as 9/11 research
makes clear.
Just tell that to the recovery folk who far from simply having to hoover stuff up, spent years removing actual solid building-type things.
I believe that 'solid buliding-type' stuff was mainly metal, but by all means, attempt to show me evidence that it was otherwise.
The question has also been asked as to whether concrete can simply be 'pulverized' during the collapse. I believe the answer is no.
Watch any building collapse whether it be controlled or accidental; they produce tremendous amounts of dust. 10 story apartment building appeared to have its concrete completely disintegrated in mid-air as it fell.
You have a video of this supposed no explosives mid-air concrete disintegration?
In any case, the majority of concrete that was used in the WTC was very thin, and thus, very easily broken down.
You have any evidence to support that claim? You may have noticed that psikeyhacker is -very- interested in knowing the precise amount of concrete in the twin towers.
However, given enough explosives, you can certainly make the debris from a symetrical collapse go beyond the footprint. There is a real problem here for those who believe that the majority of the buildings were brought down by their own weight, however; the more debris didn't come down in the footprint of the building, the less debris is around to supposedly crush the rest of the building. From what I understand, even if -all- the debris fell in its own footprint, this wouldn't be possible; this is just making it even more obvious explosives had to have been used to bring down the buildings.
EXPLOSIVES DO NOT EJECT TONS OF STEEL HUNDREDS OF FEET.
If you have powerful enough explosives, sure they can.
Any explosives that can do this would create more than a little rumble and vibrations.
Show me your evidence.
9. Blast waves blew out windows in buildings 400 feet away It has been argued that this is "obviously false". No evidence for this argument was given.
Actually, I said that it was obviously false as images from ground zero showed that the windows at the top of the buildings were not smashed, but windows at the bottom of the building were smashed.
More explosives would have to be used at the base of the building, because the steel framework is stronger at that point. There -were- loud explosions heard at the base of the towers prior to collapse, btw.
Logic dictates that debris smashed the windows below.
Debris being ejected at explosive speed, sure.
Since “blast waves” would have hit the top of these buildings, then how come only windows at the bottom of the buildings were smashed?
Read above concerning explosive concentration.
I believe the idea that the floors pancaked to begin with has no real evidence. Nevertheless, for the sake of argument, let's assume for a second that they did indeed do so; I have seen no evidence that 'the force of each floor falling on to the other was still enough to nudge the perimeter columns outward' And as to the 'nudge' part; 500 feet does not seem like a nudge. What's more, the debris was being ejected just as strongly right from the beginning, when the length of the fall was still relatively small. The argument has also been made that demolition experts will tell you that their materials do local damage to each beam it is placed on, slicing it like butter. Far from being capable of throwing tons of steel great distances. However, normal demolition experts don't have access to nanothermite, which is capable of packing quite an impressive punch, especially when it comes to iron based metals.
The fact that some debris did fall off to the side is due to the fact that tower was not falling at free fall speed.
The debris wasn't just 'falling off', it was exploding outwards.
If the tower was collapsing at free fall speed, all the debris would have gone straight down. But from watching the collapse, you see loose columns at the top being held up by the slow collapse, and following the path of least resistance fell off to the side and it’s momentum continued in an outward direction. As it fell near 1,000, the drift carried it to other buildings.
If by 'drift' you mean the pyroclastic flow, I'm with you.
The part in bold just made me laugh. How the fuck do you know what nanothermite can do compared to conventional explosions?
Research, my friend.
And again, even if this mystical substance does do as you say, where are the ear piercing explosions?
I think I remember hearing somewhere that nanothermite may not make so much noise, but I haven't been able to find that information again, if I did in the past. Another possibility is that more explosives were used and thus, instead of a few sharp blasts, you had many smaller ones, which could be confused as the simple rumble of a building collapsing.
The argument has been made that this is wrong; that the steel core was far from obliterated. In fact, many video and still pictures show that the core in both towers was still standing moments after the collapse. The initial collapse consisted of the floors alone. However, the point is not that there was no claim made that the steel core didn't survive a few moments after the collapse. The point is it was completely destroyed at amazing speed.
The fact is that the steel core was not obliterated. It remained in humungous chunks and was so difficult to remove from ground zero that it had to be cut into smaller sections. This prompted fools like Steven Jones to think that the beams had been cut during the collapse rather than after.
There is evidence that the certain cuts were -not- done after, but I don't have the information to differentiate the 2 on hand at present.
It has been argued that the thermate signature is non-existant when you consider that the materials were already common and present in the WTC for non-sinister reasons. This argument is fundamentally flawed, however, and shows a lack of understanding of what a thermate signature is; a thermate signature, like a hand signature, can only come from one thing: thermate. If it could come from something else, it wouldn't be called a thermite signature.
Except that’s not what Steven Jones says, is it?
Steven Jones says that because he found sodium, barium, aluminum etc. in the WTC dust, that this is a thermate signature. True that these elements may be in thermate, but it is probably in every skyscraper in existence.
Sorry, thermate signature. And my point holds; just because you have certain elements in a building doesn't mean that they can come up with a thermate signature when pulverized. I remember Headspin saying that they'd even found -unexploded- thermate as well.
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