Wouldn't it be more rational to take the chance to go to heaven?

[Tyler]

"Let's say you have 5,000 doors to enter to save your life.
The rational person would choose at least one door.
The irrational person would just stand there and say, "It's all bullshit!" "

Um no, no that's not exactly a reasonable analogy.
Let me rephrase it for you.

You are standing in front of 5000 doors. There is a representitive in front of each door. Each rep comes up to you and says they have a 3000 year old book that claims their door leads to the ultimate paradise. Behind you is the real world. No rep has actual proof their book tells the truth. Each one claims they have proof their book tells the truth. The real world promises you a life for some duration. The reps say that you can't live the life you desire or their door won't work.

 

[Voodoo Child]

<blockquote>Hey UN, what do you know? You're only 12 years old.</blockquote>

Ironic, since that is the argument of a 10 year old.

As Cris has pointed out rationality is not a slave to self-preservation. You can not believe in the absurd simply because someone puts a gun to your head.

Pascal's Wager assumes that your overriding motivation is self-preservation, rather than living with dignity and not betraying your intellect to grasp at the infinitesimally small chance you might go to heaven.

 

[Teg]

http://www.positiveatheism.org/faq/pascal.htm

Assume nothing! Especially when holding that one invisible being has any more relevance than any other.

For Pascal's Wager to work:

1. The God must adhere to the rules that have been written by a mortal being. Which mortal being is right? How can you be certain that believing in the wrong God would be any different than believing in no God? What if the penalty is greater?

2. The God must be uncompassionate. Belief in the God must be more important than leading a life untainted by bad behavior. Any God that would punish a person for not believing in said being is a child and not a God. (See Star Trek V)

3. A God must exist. This means that you will have wasted your breath if you are wrong. Are you willing to bet a small-chance positive with the trade of a boring Sunday/Saturday and any other stupid practice you hold sacred.


If a God exists, it would not punish someone for not believing. Otherwise the deity would make itself clear to all.

If you are right and the God will only reward those who believe, Pascal's wager still does not work. Unless the God gives creedence to empty words, those who believe simply because of this idea will still be left out. This is the ultimate failure of Pascal's Wager.

 

[GB-GIL Trans-global]

Originally posted by Ekimklaw


Hey UN, what do you know? You're only 12 years old.

Buzz off, now you're being a plain old asshole. If you had read his whole post where he said that, his mental age is OFFICIALLY between 17 years 2 months and 18 years 7 months.

In this community, I think we should judge people by their mental age and their chronological age. What does their chronological age matter at these forums? Only a way for people like you to justify not replying to their valid opinions.

<b>MY</b> mental age is <i>23.4</i>.

Time for GUESS MARK'S CHRONOLOGICAL AGE!!! The winner gets a prize

If you already know, don't tell. Oh, by the way, my birthday is 18 August, so I'll be 1 year older then (sort of, the number itself will only go up by one day from the day before it, however we are changing from numbers past the decimal point to to a number in front of the decimal point only: that's what a birthday is)

I based the calculation of my chronological age on how old I will be in 5 days.

 

[gamemania1986]

This is a question that the philosopher Pascal posed way back when. In fact it is often called "Pascal's Wager".

Cool! Never heard of it before. Anyway let me tell you guys, I am religious not because of this. I have full belief in God. It's just that I thought of this "Pascal's Wager" one day..

==============================================
Tyler wrote:

2) Christianity is right
3) Islam is right
4) JW is right
5) Judaism is right

Choices 2-5 promise an afterlife - but how do you choose which one??
==============================================

Well, do some study and research, then you'll know what to choose...

Here's according to Islam's point of view (I am a muslim)...

God gives his message trough prophets from time to time. Hovewer, some prophets only serve to remind human being while some get to carry a set of rules which we call religion. The latter gets a holy book (The Qur'an was documented after the prophet's death, coordinated by Usman bin Affan (if I am not mistaken). There are lots of beleiver in that time that remembered the whole content so assembling it was not really a big issue). Now, if new rules come then people must follow it.

The 2 last prophets are:
Jesus
Muhammad

Jesus carried Christian. But over the time Bible and Christianity itself was changed/modified by human. Jesus is God in the modified Christian. By the time Muhammad came, most Christian refused to beleive in Islam.

"But how do I know that a new religion is God's next religion, not a hoax?"

Well, that's what miracle is for, to make people believe. And to delete any confusion, it has been foretold by prophets that Muhammad will carry the last religion (even mentioned in the unmodified bible).

An Muhammad do get lots of miracles....

1) Cloud protects him from the sun when travelling
2) He got teleported from Arab to Palestina, then he went to heaven by riding an animal called Buraq, to receive the order to do salat/prayer 5 times a day
3) Qur'an is his biggest miracle

and some other things....

What's Christian's point of view in this? How do you view Muhammad? A guy spreading hoax? Do you think your bible is still unmodified? How do you view the separation of Christian into Catholic and Protestant? How do you view the Church in the past of its actions againts scientific stuffs (poor Galileo and Lavoisier...)...

And did you know that many muslim in the ancient times pioneered science (math, chemistry, astronomy, medical, etc)? For example Ibnu Sina, the father of medical science...

 

[skywalker]

Originally posted by hockeywings
let me give you a hypathetical game

I have a rock, this rock wards off tigers, i am holding the rock right now no tigers around, see it works now, there are 2 possibilities concerning this rock

1) it really does ward off tigers and it could come in handy sometime

2) it is a bunch of hoopla that is just a STUPID ROCK

would you buy this rock from me, just in case it wards off tigers?

Haron Yahya?

 

[Tyler]

"God gives his message trough prophets from time to time. Hovewer, some prophets only serve to remind human being while some get to carry a set of rules which we call religion. The latter gets a holy book (The Qur'an was documented after the prophet's death, coordinated by Usman bin Affan (if I am not mistaken). There are lots of beleiver in that time that remembered the whole content so assembling it was not really a big issue). Now, if new rules come then people must follow it.

The 2 last prophets are:
Jesus
Muhammad

Jesus carried Christian. But over the time Bible and Christianity itself was changed/modified by human. Jesus is God in the modified Christian. By the time Muhammad came, most Christian refused to beleive in Islam."

So you're saying because you're special book says you are right then you are. And Christians say because their special book says they're right, they are. And Jews say because Christ never actually completed what their special book predicts a saviour would do (neither did Mohammed), they're right.

And then we need not look very hard before we encounter Buddhists. Or the Hindus. What about Cao Dai? Tell me what authority you have over them? I'll tell you what - your special book.

There is not one way to prove religion let alone a specific religion a logical choice. Accept the fact that you are not basing your beliefs on logic and you will be more ready to dive into understanding your spirituality better.

 

[Markx]

Originally posted by Tyler

So you're saying because you're special book says you are right then you are. And Christians say because their special book says they're right, they are. And Jews say because Christ never actually completed what their special book predicts a saviour would do (neither did Mohammed), they're right.

.

Tyler,
If you read all three books what you will notice is, they all are refering to same religion. Islam is not only proven by or written in Quran but in above two books as well. Bible and Torah or old testaments. Muhammad(pbuh) was mention not only in those two books but in Veda and other hindu and parsian scriptures as well, Now how come something which didn't happened was mention so many times and in so many different books and in different parts of the world and in different times? You still think that there is no truth in religion? I am not saying right now that Islam is only true religion, but what I am saying is that all the religions were the same but Islam was last and the complete religion in the list of them. It is like the seal of religions. And it was the main message of all the religions that there is no one but one GOD, worship him and follow the book and rules he made for you. Simple is that but people changed the books and rules and disregards the teaching, since books were messed up no one knew what was written and why and when etc etc but that is not the case with Islam howeve it is the case with the followers of islam that they don't follow their book ( most of them ) but they follow the culture and rituals adopted and created by the fore fathers etc.


If you like I can give you more insight on Muhammad(pbuh) and Islam in different scriptures. Or if you like I can start a new thread since this thread has a different topic.

Peace