would you give up your place in heaven for me

[mustafhakofi]

Let's say you and I die and we both appear in front of your god at the same time. God tells us there is only room for one of us in heaven. He tells you, the Christian, that I, the atheist, had lived a more "christian like" life then you except for the whole belief thing. He tells you I deserve to be in heaven more than you, however since I didn't believe in god while I was living, the space is reserved for you. But, he says, if you want you can give up your spot and he will let me in, After all, I have been the better person minus the belief in god. God also tells you he can't divulge what will happen to you if you do give up your space. If you don't give it up you can enter heaven no questions asked.

So What do you do?

 

[robtex]

where are u going with this? how can the christian omnipotent god have a no vacancy sign on the door? beside their bible says if you don't believe you dont get in....it is not an applicable hypothical

 

[Dreamwalker]

Heh, I think that is quite a good question, I think I know where this is going.

 

[mustafhakofi]

to quote audible

"Therefore by their fruits shall you know them. Not everyone who says to me Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven. Many will say to me in that day Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy by your name and by your name cast out demons, and by your name do many mighty works? And I will profess to them, I never knew you. Go away from me you who work evil." Matt 7:22-23

So you can see that not every person who claims to be Christian will make it to that starry, wonder filled entertainment park they call heaven. True Christians tell me that only 10 percent of those who claim to be True Christians are Christians at all. There's just a little rivalry. It seems they are all in competition with each other for that last 144,000 condos-in-paradise. Now God knows how much real estate He has and how much it costs. Overpopulation being what it is today He has to oust some. Otherwise garbage over runs the golden streets, airborne pollution covers the crystal walls and the sewers back up. Yech!

but if the religious are right, it is applicable.
it does'nt hurt to ask, does it.

 

[jcarl]

Rom. 9:3 "For I would rather have myself accursed from Christ for my brethren...."

Interesting question, or really a convicting one. Greater love has no one than this that he lay down his life for his friends[I'll broaden "friends" for this situation to anybody; as it is its an understatement.] If I really did believe that I loved everyone, atheist, Christian, or otherwise, then I think I would have to say yes, I would. You probably think I'm just shoveling garbage, but you asked for my opinion, so I gave it. I must mention two things as well.
I do not believe this to be possible. I believe in eternal security, so once saved always saved. But the possibility of this was not the question.
As a sidenote (or a can opener for worms)Your idea that you can get to Heaven by a "Christian" life is inaccurate. There is no one who gets into Heaven by any merit of their own.

 

[okinrus]

You cannot do true good without grace, and you cannot be christian-like without grace. For you to behave Christian-like, maintaing it, as it were, for your entire life would require some sort of implicit belief and trust in the grace present.

 

[James R]

If this is a true God, and he says you deserve it more than me, who am I to question? I just hope he has something good in mind for me, as an alternative.

 

[Persol]

I'd think "wait, I'm not a Chrisitain", then i'd realize he made a mistake and try and pull a fast one by getting in.

 

[camphlps]

I voted no, base'n off of Job. He believed that he is "without fault", which he was. But he believed that he deserves nothing "bad" (like when his family died and everything else) God tells Job that he is the "I am" and that his ways are different than what we expect.

To boil it down. Doing what is "right" will not change anything. However, just cause someone calls themselves christian doesnt make them holy or anything either...so it goes bolth ways.

Edit:

I noticed you quoted "The Sheep and the Goats". Some take this "too" far by believing that "anyone" can enter. What the goats where, was people who believe in God, but do not obey him. If a man was to truly be saved by Christ he must do what he can to obey. ( Dont have to be perfect, but I guess its God's opinion anyways). Whenever Jesus would heal someone, it is by their faith. Jesus wants us to have faith before we can be healed. Metaphoricly, Salvation is achieved by faith. However, when they begin to leave Jesus tells them to "Go and sin no more". Even if we have faith in Jesus and disobey. We do not "keep" salvation. Some say you cant lose it, but thats what the goats where. People who had faith in God, but did not obey and keep their salvation.

This of course is a interpitation, so its my observation...doesnt mean its correct, so dont try anything...

 

[Tiassa]

You give it up.

Lord, here comes the flood
We'll say goodbye to flesh and blood
If again the seas are silent
And any still alive
It'll be those who gave their island to survive
Drink up, dreamers, you're running dry.

(Peter Gabriel)​

Or, if you prefer, the last will be first, and the first will be last.

 

[Lori_7]

Yea, you can have my spot, gladly. I don't want to go to a heaven where there is limited space, and whether or not you get in depends upon your works, or how "good" of a person you are. That's definitely not the god I know, so I don't want to be there.

 

[§outh§tar]

According to the Bible's doctrine of predestination, tiassa, neither you, nor me, nor she has any say in the matter.

 

[beyondtimeandspace]

Heaven isn't a "place" so the question doesn't apply.

Simple belief doesn't guarantee everlasting happiness.

Life lived according to believed goodness and truth warrants heaven.

****************

The Bible doesn't posit predestination

 

[Adstar]

According to the Bible's doctrine of predestination, tiassa, neither you, nor me, nor she has any say in the matter.

Is that the bibles doctrine of predestination or calvins interpritation of the meaning of biblical predestination?

All praise The Ancient of Days

 

[Adstar]

Let's say you and I die and we both appear in front of your god at the same time. God tells us there is only room for one of us in heaven. He tells you, the Christian, that I, the atheist, had lived a more "christian like" life then you except for the whole belief thing. He tells you I deserve to be in heaven more than you, however since I didn't believe in god while I was living, the space is reserved for you. But, he says, if you want you can give up your spot and he will let me in, After all, I have been the better person minus the belief in god. God also tells you he can't divulge what will happen to you if you do give up your space. If you don't give it up you can enter heaven no questions asked.

So What do you do?

Your whole question is based on a host of misconceptions.

Misconception 1 The 144,000. Do you think that only 144,000 people are to be saved? If you do then you are sadly misinformed.

Misconception 2 You seemed to be locked into thinking that salvation is gained by the number of good works or being a goody goody? Sorry salvation is based on belief in and acceptance of salvation through the Messiah Jesus.

Misconception 3 You seem to think salvation is like a tradable commodity on the stock exchange. As if it can be transferred to another after it is received as a gift from God. Sorry that is not possible and even if it where you would find no one who would give you it because we know the alternative and its too horrible to contemplate.

So no one deserves eternity with God. It's not something we can earn. It's not a payment for services rendered. It's not something we own. It’s a gift, and remains as a gift to those that accept it.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[duendy]

hah...'to all those who ACCEPT it'?

like over here you have eternal hell fire and over here a sparkly gift wrapped present of eternal heaven, right, and you go, 'hmmmmmm, now, which one?

the whole thing is a fairy story. i dont believe i am hearing this

put it this way. if you fudnamentalist nutcases was right, i'd wanna be wrong

 

[Tiassa]

According to the Bible's doctrine of predestination, tiassa, neither you, nor me, nor she has any say in the matter.

Doesn't that rather put a damper on the topic itself? Everybody goes or I hold out, come what may. Any other way, and God can go screw for all I care.

Is that the bibles doctrine of predestination or calvins interpritation of the meaning of biblical predestination?

Ah, Calvin ... a man said to have fashioned God in his own image.

 

[§outh§tar]

Is that the bibles doctrine of predestination or calvins interpritation of the meaning of biblical predestination?

All praise The Ancient of Days

Adstar,

Don't be self righteous. The ENTIRE Bible is subject to interpretation... The Pauline formula of salvation through grace for the elect is what influenced Calvin, not his arbitrariness per se.

 

[§outh§tar]

Doesn't that rather put a damper on the topic itself? Everybody goes or I hold out, come what may. Any other way, and God can go screw for all I care.

But... But... Paul said... shouldn't we take Paul's word as Gospel truth? After all he was only reiterating what Jesus said verbatim since he was a good friend of the Messiah and had many hallucinations, er, visions of Him..

Ah, Calvin ... a man said to have fashioned God in his own image.

How different is that from any other religion?

 

[§outh§tar]

Your whole question is based on a host of misconceptions.

Misconception 2 You seemed to be locked into thinking that salvation is gained by the number of good works or being a goody goody? Sorry salvation is based on belief in and acceptance of salvation through the Messiah Jesus.

So no one deserves eternity with God. It's not something we can earn. It's not a payment for services rendered. It's not something we own. It’s a gift, and remains as a gift to those that accept it.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

According to the One you worship:

Matthew 5
17 "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

I don't know if it's just me, but there's nothing mentioned about grace and heaven here. In fact, He seems to be upholding the Mosaic Law in contrast to the practice of Christians. If you break the commandments, you won't get a nice parking lot in heaven, if you don't, you can drive the Ferrari on Wednesdays.

Of course, I challenge you to refute this.

----------

Matthew 19
16 Now behold, one came and said to Him, "Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?"
17So He said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments."

I don't know if you simply choose to be ignorant of this but He clearly says nothing about grace and salvation here. Again, he seems to be stressing the importance of upholding the Mosaic law IN ORDER TO ENTER INTO LIFE.

Did we mention he only preached to Jews and told his disciples to preach to Jews during His entire ministry? Me thinks the statement at the end of the Gospels telling them to spread it to the Gentiles is a later forgery to justify Pauline theology.. just like the Johanine comma and all the other forgeries in the Bible. How sin-spired!