Worldview and Religion

[BenTheMan]

Ok, just one ground rule. If you're an athiest and feel the need to tell me why Christianity is the worst thing to happen to humanity, I don't care. I've read the books and know the arguments---I assure you that you can't tell me anything I don't already know. Likewise, I have spent eight years among the most conservative christians in the US. I know what you will say, and again I assure you---you won't tell me anything that I haven't already heard.

To both parties---please don't insert your (unwanted) opinion here.

If you have an objective comment about the following, however, please feel free to make any rational points.

I will trust a moderator to ensure that these guidelines are followed, as per Plasma Inferno's ``Rokkon'' rules.

As a scientist, I have trouble believing in things like a virgin birth, or Jesus walking on water, or TRex eating vegetables, or any of the other stories that people teach in sunday school. In line with Hume, the rational point of view is that Genesis is an oral tale like any other oral tale from any other culture, and that biblical miracles can be attributed to natural phenomena.

I do not feel, however, that a belief in God is wholly illogical, and that such a belief is not in contradiction with Nature in general. In other words, divine intervention at the start of the universe doesn't preclude the universe from following a set of physical laws. (Whether we can KNOW these physical laws is another thread. This point of view also leads me to the idea that, perhaps, there is no free will.)

I am a lapsed Catholic, and have been struggling with the following question: Should one's religion dictate one's worldview, or should one's worldview dictate their theology?

 

[S.A.M.]

I think religion guides our worldview, but like everything else, its best not to take someone else's word for it.

 

[BenTheMan]

Clearly, religion has nothing to do with reality and only guides one to a fantasy worldview.

Thank you. Please reread the first two paragraphs of the original post.

To the moderators: Please keep this thread clean from further infractions, as per this:

http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=67636

 

[BenTheMan]

I think religion guides our worldview, but like everything else, its best not to take someone else's word for it.

Do you want to elaborate on this, at all?

 

[S.A.M.]

Do you want to elaborate on this, at all?

Whether you see another person as like you or unlike you, has a great deal to do with your perspective of people. And perspective of people is usually defined by religion. You could either see another person as part of the whole, as belonging to the other, or as being better and from what I have seen, this will be based to a great extent on your understanding of religion.

In my experience, people who explore their spirituality have a broader and more expansive worldview than those with materialistic ambitions. It does not really matter how they define their God or religion, in that case.

 

[Carcano]

I am a lapsed Catholic, and have been struggling with the following question: Should one's religion dictate one's worldview, or should one's worldview dictate their theology?

Most christians nowadays do not formulate their view of the world according to their religion.

Christianty used to be defined more or less by the totality of the new testment...even with its glaring contradictions.

But now, most christians have eliminated most of what conflicts with rationalism and secular humanism...leaving them with maybe only 5% of the scriptures.

The rest is either ignored or explained away as allegory.

There is much of the bible priests/ministers will no longer read aloud in church.

 

[BenTheMan]

Most christians nowadays do not formulate their view of the world according to their religion....But now, most christians have eliminated most of what conflicts with rationalism and secular humanism...leaving them with maybe only 5% of the scriptures.

Of course, yes. But one only need look at polls in the US, for example, wherein 50% of people say that they believe man was created by God in his present form. (One can explain these numbers away, I think---for example, most people in America were raised Christian, and most people will revert to that if questioned openly about something.) These numbers are important when it comes to what kind of politicians we elect, and what kind of textbooks the school board chooses for our childeren.

Taking this 5% figure literally (as, I'm sure, it was not inteded to be), will there ever be a time when it is 0%? How much can you take out of the New Testament and still call your religion Christianity?

 

[Carcano]

How much can you take out of the New Testament and still call your religion Christianity?

Even if you stand by 100% of the new testament you will still be deeply conflicted...because the various sections of the NT are highly contradictory.

Its even debatable whether the Catholic church is Christian. They dont believe in hell as a 'place' of punishment, even though there are 120 references to it as such in the NT.

An even more primary question is whether Jesus was a Christian. I think not, as he specifically forbad his disciples to preach to gentiles. He was a Jew from first to last.

 

[S.A.M.]

An even more primary question is whether Jesus was a Christian. I think not, as he specifically forbad his disciples to preach to gentiles. He was a Jew from first to last.

Where does it say this?

 

[original]

I know what you allude to when you say that it is still possible for a supernatural cause for the laws of nature. When I read stories of the personification of gods, I can't help but think that it's just another novel, a psychological thriller with mystery and suspense. The fact that those stories might use historical settings is no different than using Rome, Paris, or New York in modern literature.

A theory may be presented one day where the universe is chronologically mapped to 13.7 billion years ago, or whatever age they deem most accurate at that time, and we are able to determine the conditions that set our universe and allowed Earth to become a habitable planet. Or we might never find this out, because the data only goes as far back as we can observe. We have to define parallels in our religion and world view, and avoid perpendicular assumptions.

I don't know if there is a law or lawmaker that provided life on Earth. Whatever it is, I feel that the mathematical sin is involved.

 

[Carcano]

Where does it say this?

Matthew 10:5

 

[S.A.M.]

Matthew 10:5

Are there any other references?

 

[Carcano]

Are there any other references?

There is something similiar in Matthew 15:24 thereabouts.

 

[iceaura]

Whatever the specifics about a particular sect or religion (such as fundie Christianity, or Zoroastrianism, or whatever) the general question remains.

It might be more productive to ponder it in the light of the fact that millions of people have subscribed to religions that had essentially no gods in them. So religious faith and spiritual belief is, in general, a separate issue from whatever one's struggles with deity may be.

 

[Wisdom_Seeker]

Religion has been misinterpreted since the beggining. We should be aware of that by now.
For me, the true religion lies in the unification of all life, because God resides in each and every living being.
How can this be fit into a political organization that intrisically promotes discrimination?
We are all humans, and that is the only category we should put ourselves into. Not christians, not catholics, but humans...

That doesn´t mean we should be total skeptics, why not feel curiosity for what happens after death? Why not feel curiosity about God? About life itself??

 

[Nasor]

I am a lapsed Catholic, and have been struggling with the following question: Should one's religion dictate one's worldview, or should one's worldview dictate their theology?

If you allow your religion to dictate your worldview, then on what are you basing your belief in your religion?

 

[Crunchy Cat]

I am a lapsed Catholic, and have been struggling with the following question: Should one's religion dictate one's worldview, or should one's worldview dictate their theology?

I would start by asking:

A) What are my psychological needs?
B) In what situations do I value truth over my psychological needs and vice versa?

Based on the answers, it might be clearer which position is better for you. Another result might be that the wrong question is being asked.

 

[heliocentric]

Religion can be a great push in the right direction, im not religious myself but even i can see the common sense in alot of Jesus's parables.
I think the problem is most people treat religious doctorine as an A-Z manual, and use it to form their entire world view. Alot of christians, buddhists, muslims really dont have an opinion on anything which isnt laid down in stone in their religious texts.
Which to my mind is completely missing the point; most religions are really just a call to tune into your intuitive moral sense. Its amazing how many religious people miss this and instead use their religious texts to do all the thinking for them; using their holy book as a do's and don'ts book of rules.

 

[Wisdom_Seeker]

Religion can be a great push in the right direction, im not religious myself but even i can see the common sense in alot of Jesus's parables.
I think the problem is most people treat religious doctorine as an A-Z manual, and use it to form their entire world view. Alot of christians, buddhists, muslims really dont have an opinion on anything which isnt laid down in stone in their religious texts.
Which to my mind is completely missing the point; most religions are really just a call to tune into your intuitive moral sense. Its amazing how many religious people miss this and instead use their religious texts to do all the thinking for them; using their holy book as a do's and don'ts book of rules.

Yes and yes, every religion teaches basically that you need to know yourself. The parts were it tells you what is good or bad, are mostly manipulation techniques. Some for a moral society, some for personal purposes of the translator in charge.

 

[BenTheMan]

That doesn´t mean we should be total skeptics, why not feel curiosity for what happens after death? Why not feel curiosity about God? About life itself??

Certianly there are questions that are unanswerable by science. In these cases---say like after we die, or before the Big Bang---there are no scientific answers, and so answers of all types stand on equal footing. In this sense, God causing the Big Bang is no different than, say, a Flying Spaghetti Monster doing the same thing.

If you allow your religion to dictate your worldview, then on what are you basing your belief in your religion?

Religion is always a question of faith. This is why it is easier for less intelligent people to believe in God---they don't understand something, and instead of taking the trouble to understand it, they look to the bible for wisdom. This is ok, but it gets us things like intelligent design and blue laws.

Based on the answers, it might be clearer which position is better for you. Another result might be that the wrong question is being asked.

I should be quite clear in the fact that my worldview is dictated by science, and whatever spirutuality I have fits around it.

Which to my mind is completely missing the point; most religions are really just a call to tune into your intuitive moral sense. Its amazing how many religious people miss this and instead use their religious texts to do all the thinking for them; using their holy book as a do's and don'ts book of rules.

I agree. Your view seems to be that religion is more good than bad? Or that religion has a great potential to be a good thing?