Woman gives birth at age 66

This speaks strongly of her selfishness but it also makes one wonder about the mental stability she has.

Should her action be illegal?

Absolutely not.

Is it possible it will all work out well?

Of course.

That is the problem. People cannot agree on things but they can ALL (mostly all) agree it isnt right. The problem comes in when yahoos have issues with the numbers.

For example: if they cap the age at 65 then some cry babies will say "65 is too soon, should be 67.5" etc.
 
That is the problem. People cannot agree on things but they can ALL (mostly all) agree it isnt right. The problem comes in when yahoos have issues with the numbers.

For example: if they cap the age at 65 then some cry babies will say "65 is too soon, should be 67.5" etc.

As I pointed out to Lucysnow, apparently the IVF clinics have already placed a cap- as it seems to be a moot point.
In the UK, it seems, it's at 50 years of age.

I'm not sure what it is in the USA.

But even if it's made illegal, there are plenty of people that will find a place or a doctor or whatever that will do it under the table.

"Society" is a deep rooted illusion that we practice. Like mathematics, the principles of it are sound enough that people often forget that it is illusory.
But this is, such as dividing anything by zero, a harsh reminder that it is an illusion.
There are those that say that this should be illegal as it will place a burden on society. Once a group of people choose to band into a society- they automatically accept its burdens. That argument holds little weight with me.
And the burdens will persist even outside of the law.

The way I see it, the doctors should place the cap if there is to be one.

As it is, we don't let those under 16 years of age drive, regardless of their maturity level or experience.

We don't let those under 21 years of age drink alcohol. Regardless of their maturity or body mass.

And we don't let those under the age of 18 smoke, regardless of
ummm...
regardless of uhh... shit. What? Lung capacity? Whatever. Anyway...

There will be those that break such a law and those that complain about the cap.
 
Lucysnow-- Your reply to my post is painfully obvious that you either did not read my post or completely misinterpreted it (which is interesting as I was quite clear as any one reading the post can see.)
I'm not going to bother with that shit again. Either get it right, or don't bother.

LOL! You don't give me even the slightest hint of what I misunderstood but I gave you heaps of what you completely fail to understand in this argument. I would suggest that you don't bother til you learn how to turn on your thinking cap.

You couldn't formulate a proper argument even if it was handed to you. As a matter of fact you seem mistake personal opinion for argument. Maybe your grandmother was too old after all. Ha!
 
As I pointed out to Lucysnow, apparently the IVF clinics have already placed a cap- as it seems to be a moot point.
In the UK, it seems, at 50

Where did you find 50? Did you pull it out of your cap? There is no cap Neverfly in the UK. If you were able to comprehend information you would know that the NATIONAL HEALTH SERVICE which is the free medical services in the UK has these regulations that are based on the demand of high priced procedures. What governs the NHS doesn't govern private clinics. The problem with private UK clinics is that they are bloody expensive which is why many young and old leave the country to have the procedures done:

Here are the National Health Service regulations, read carefully in case you some of the information slips through your head:

The availability of IVF treatment on the NHS is subject to guidelines that are issued by the National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence (NICE). Waiting lists for NHS funded IVF treatment will vary depending on your particular PCT. If you have been trying for a baby for a while (more than a year), and you are over 30 years of age, it is important to see your GP as soon as possible to discuss your fertility treatment options on the NHS. Unless you are exempt, you will have to pay prescription charges for any medicines that you require.


These recommend that you should be offered up to three cycles of IVF if:

you are between 23 and 39 years of age at the time of treatment, and one, or both, of you has been diagnosed with a fertility problem, or
you have been infertile for at least three years.

Some PCTs also have additional criteria that may affect your eligibility for funding. For example, some PCTs will not provide funding for couples where one partner already has a child.

http://www.nhs.uk/chq/Pages/889.aspx?CategoryID=54&SubCategoryID=127



Under the terms of the HFEA Act 1990, any fertility centre in the United Kingdom offering treatment must take account of the welfare of any child who may be born as a result of a treatment, and of any other children who may be affected by the birth. In order to fulfill this obligation, clinics need to assess each case before accepting them onto the program. The following welfare of the child issues may be discussed with the patients:

*A fertility clinic that takes on a patient not using the NHS MAY but are not REQUIRED to ask the following as its not public money paying for it the procedure. People look to eastern europe because these procedures can cost up to $300,000 for a years set of treatments:rolleyes:*:

Age and likely future ability to look after or provide for a child's need.

Their commitment to having and bringing up a child, or children.

Economic status, their ability to meet the needs of any child or children born as a result of treatment.

Home environment, and the effect of the new baby or babies upon any existing children.

Mental and physical health of the parents.

The medical and family history of the couples and their families.

Criminal history of parents.

If they have any children removed from their custody and any history of child abuse.

The potential child need to know about their origin.

http://www.ivf-infertility.com/ivf/standard/regulations4.php


Fertility clinics

Most fertility clinics (even those located on NHS premises) only offer a fee-paying IVF service. The cost varies from clinic to clinic.

A cycle of IVF, including medicines and consultations, can typically cost between £4,000-£8,000 pounds. However, costs could increase if you also require donor eggs, or sperm.

Private clinics operate in competition with each other, so prices tend to be similar in most areas of the country; usually an average of around £5,000 a cycle. As the medicines that are used in IVF can be very expensive, you should ensure that they are included in the overall price.

If they are not included, it may be worth comparing prices from different sources, such as local pharmacies. In some cases, you may be able to buy the medicines direct from the pharmaceutical company.

Some fertility clinics offer egg-sharing schemes where can donate eggs collected from a cycle of IVF to another women in return for a reduced price IVF treatment.

http://www.nhs.uk/chq/Pages/889.aspx?CategoryID=54&SubCategoryID=127


So Einstein, where does it say 50? Where does it say that age is a legally binding requirement?

Again if it all seemed to pass you by, the reason she and others of all ages went outside of the NHS is because it is limited in funds, there is a waiting list. Its far far cheaper in the Czech republic, Latvia, the Ukraine and many other countries. Some countries like Holland don't have fertility clinics that do not operate outside of their national health care service.

So unless you can come up with some evidence on what you say you should perhaps revise your supposed facts.

As usual you were not able to answer this simple question I had for you which was:

Outside of simply saying 'she's too old' which obviously she old but not too old for the procedure to take hold, can you come up with any reason whatsoever why performing a procedure on a woman her age is detrimental to society, the woman or the child in above normal possibilities?

Now stop mucking about and answer the bloody question...if you can...

*someone hand me the dunce cap*

You see if you could answer the question then it wouldn't be based on your personal bias or opinion but on the objective benefits or negative costs for the greater good which is what we try to build laws and moral arguments upon. Not just silly comments on the obvious that anyone with a bit of intellect can stick a hole through.

Sorry if you find this rude but its for your own erudition.
 
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So Einstein, where does it say 50? Where does it say that age is a legally binding requirement?

Again if it all seemed to pass you by, the reason she and others of all ages went outside of the NHS is because it is limited in funds, there is a waiting list. Its far far cheaper in the Czech republic, Latvia, the Ukraine and many other countries. Some countries like Holland don't have fertility clinics that do not operate outside of their national health care service.

So unless you can come up with some evidence on what you say you should perhaps revise your supposed facts.

While there is no "cap", the article you linked in your OP stated the following:

As revealed in the Daily Mail earlier this month, Mrs Adeney travelled to Ukraine for the IVF treatment as clinics here refuse to treat women over 50.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1189068/Britains-oldest-mother-Elizabeth-Adeney-gives-birth-5lb-3oz-boy.html#ixzz10WQMMnvl

So it appears as though there is some confusion between the two of you that would have been solved by both parties reading the articles linked.. thoroughly.

All the articles that have been linked about Ms Adeney states that she went to the Ukraine because IVF clinics in the UK refused to treat her because they refuse to treat women over 50. It said nothing about how much it would cost in the UK compared to the Ukraine. It, and other articles, only mentioned her age. So that could very well be where he got the "50" from. It seems you have some insider knowledge about how women over 50 can obtain the treatment in the UK if they are able to afford it. But none of the articles that deal specifically with Ms Adeney support your claims. All have stated however that clinics in the UK refuse to treat women over 50 and that was why she, in particular, went to the Ukraine.

As you have stated yourself in this thread, Ms Adeney is a woman of means who can afford the best, which begs the question, why would she go to the Ukraine when she could have afforded the best in the UK, with something so precious that she desperately wanted?

Could it be, as all the articles have stated, because "clinics here refuse to treat women over 50"? Maybe? Possibly?
 
LOL! You don't give me even the slightest hint of what I misunderstood but I gave you heaps of what you completely fail to understand in this argument. I would suggest that you don't bother til you learn how to turn on your thinking cap.

You couldn't formulate a proper argument even if it was handed to you. As a matter of fact you seem mistake personal opinion for argument. Maybe your grandmother was too old after all. Ha!

You're funny. Nice try, Lucysnow, but the posts above stand alone.

You're sinking to personal attacks now, and that's why I'm not "formulating proper arguments" with you. It just wouldn't be productive with you in the mindstate you are now in. It might well make me say things I have no business saying and I'm just not going to allow myself to sink into it- In spite of your accusations.

As for a hint as to what you misinterpreted in my post- You wrote this very long response in which you went line by line showing that you misunderstood several things I said. All you need do is compare the two posts when you are calm and you then have a choice:

Show some honor and admit your own mistakes
or
Continue the denial and personal attacks.
 
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