Roughly everything where you talk about spy satelites and drug testing, and oooh the creepy military, as if it means anything.leopold99 said:qoute the passage that leads you to this conclusion mystech
Roughly everything where you talk about spy satelites and drug testing, and oooh the creepy military, as if it means anything.leopold99 said:qoute the passage that leads you to this conclusion mystech
again you must be shitting meMystech said:Again, please stick to relevent conversation or just get the hell out of this thread. I know about LSD tests - big fucking deal, how does that matter in the slightest?
which doesn't make me a conspiracy theorist nut-jobMystech said:Roughly everything where you talk about spy satelites and drug testing, and oooh the creepy military, as if it means anything.
leopold99 said:again you must be shitting me
don't you get it? the military is not bound by fisa, the courts, the president, NOBODY.
leopold99 said:and you ask how it's relevant?
it is very relevant my freind especially when the military can conduct experiments without approval or oversight of any kind.
and you are worried about the president spying on people?
leopold99 said:as far as the capabilities of the military is concerned the president is a nothing, a nobody
leopold99 said:and it just isn't the military it's the cia, you know, the intelligence gathering arm of the government?
Right, and there was an uproar and we tried to limit power and create systems for accountability, systems which are now breaking down. I don't see how anything that you've pointed out (even the true stuff) makes the slightest bit of difference. Fisa courts are being ignored, there is no oversight, it is never right for a government agency to have this sort of power and to probe so deeply into the privacy of US citizens for any reason - we established that in the 70s, but now we're letting the President pick and choose what laws he is bound by and what new powers he wants. It's just wrong.leopold99 said:the spy programs of the government been going way before they were made public in 1978 when fisa was enacted.
thats how it's relevant, it's been going on for years and years purpetrated by the cia and military but when the president does it it's some kind of big deal.
like i said it must be nice to be young and dumbMystech said:There we go, this is why I call you a conspiracy theorist nut-job. You're making wild claims which are factually incorrect and frankly just so far out there that I don't know how you can even take yourself seriously.
leopold99 said:in your opinion what is it i said that is not factual?
i never said the military is evilMystech said:I think I layed that out. The picture you paint of the military as our evil unacountable overlord isn't particularly apt, and is irrelevent to this thread. Saying that they're accoutable to no-one is utterly rediculous.
Mystech said:I don't know, they could do any number of things, and we've no way to know if there's any accountability at all, and have no reason to trust them with that information. This is on par with having federal agents going through your trash - who knows what they might find that someone might have an interest in - they could put together a profile of your habits, build a chart of your social network - sell the information off to the highest bidder.
§outh§tar said:I'm sure you know there are already people whose 'profession' is to dig through other people's trash and sniff for unshredded sensitive information, etc.
if you are talking about dumpsterdiving you are mistaken because it isn't illegal.Mystech said:Be that as it may, it's still actually illegal
Mystech said:Be that as it may, it's still actually illegal
I guess like a lot of sheeple, you don't seem to really get all of the implications of this sort of datamining being preformed by our government on we the people. When our own federal government and intelligence agencies are performing this sort of action without regard for adherence to law (which they've already shown that they have no respect for) it can be used for any purpose at all, especially illegitimate ones, as there's simply no oversight for this sort of thing when they're all in on it. What if Bush were want to pull a Nixon - he wouldn't even have to break into any buildings, G. Gordon Liddy is out of a job!
As far as finding potential terrorists go this information that they're collecting is relatively useless, however when it comes to finding out dirt on political enemies within your own country, people who you already know are against you, because they happen to think they live in a safe and free society and voice their opinions openly, the consequences can be devastating. And thanks to sheep like you who are completely fine with giving up such privileges of privacy we will never again have that right.
Simply put it's entirely inappropriate for the government to be keeping track of who's calling who when and for how long - just as inappropriate in fact as it is to illegally tap phones without warrants in direct violation of laws put there to protect our civil liberties, and especially wrong to do so because you're apparently taping so many phones that you don't feel a FISA court could keep up with your warrant requests, regardless of the fact that they're allowed to file them afterward. That's simply not Government's roll, it certainly violates our rites to unreasonable searches and security in our personal effects, and serves no purpose other than to march us ever closer to being a totalitarian police state.
leopold99 said:that is what i don't understand about mystech. he harps on the president doing something illegal but relativly harmless but when i point out the atrocities of the military i'm retarded. judging by his posts he wasn't even aware the military has been doing what i pointed out to him.
From what I've read of the edgewood thing the army is denying that any civilians were exposed to anything, and there's no proof that they were. If proof emerged, and the people involved are still around its likely they would be punished, and at the very least the people who were exposed would sue the army for a fortune.leopold99 said:since when does the military obey the law?
scrounge up one, just one, name of a military man that paid for the crimes at edgewood arsenal.
How does this affect my example in any way? So if someone in the military were found to have used a satellite to gather information on americans, and then wrote the information down, they would face legal consequences.leopold99 said:your statement about the satellites does not apply because sattelites do not store information they gather and transmit it only
Look at my analogy. So the guy who broke into your house says over and over that he was in the house to watch for robbers. Would you accept this?leopold99 said:what is so illegal about watching people that has ties to known terrorists?
bush has repeated over and over and over that is what he is doing.
What does this have to do with anything?leopold99 said:now let me ask you a question, do you beleive that there are spies from foreign governments in our government?
do you see now why bushs plan has merit?
you sure? i don't think the government or the military paid for their crimes at edgewood or the myraid of other places they used human guinea pigs.jps said:How does this affect my example in any way? So if someone in the military were found to have used a satellite to gather information on americans, and then wrote the information down, they would face legal consequences.