I was willing to stop bashing you all, but the xians weren't willing to stop. You don't bash yourself, Jenyar, you just rewind your brainwashing like a soundtrack.
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Will you vote for God?
- Thread starter GodLied
- Start date
I was willing to stop bashing you all, but the xians weren't willing to stop. You don't bash yourself, Jenyar, you just rewind your brainwashing like a soundtrack.
R
Redoubtable
Guest
Will I vote for God?
The question vexing me is . . .
Will He send me to Hell if I don't?
The question vexing me is . . .
Will He send me to Hell if I don't?
That's like saying you'll turn the other cheek if they do.Originally posted by Medicine*Woman
I was willing to stop bashing you all, but the xians weren't willing to stop. You don't bash yourself, Jenyar, you just rewind your brainwashing like a soundtrack.
But in case you misunderstood me before. There's a difference between "bashing" (hatred, slander, personal attacks, racism, etc.) and difference of opinion. I don't always agree with your views and I don't hesitate to voice my opinions, but I have never insulted or degraded you.
Besides, we're all brainwashed to different degrees. Some choose to call it education, others call it logic or common sense, some have more colourful names for it. Usually it comes down to preconception or even prejudice. The best we can all do is try to make ourselves and our positions clear, and let others decide for themselves.
Re: Will I vote for God?
According to the NT, you will not go to Hell until everyone believing in Jesus is killed for their beliefs. What kind of purgatory your soul endures until then depends on your beliefs.
GodLied.
Originally posted by Redoubtable
The question vexing me is . . .
Will He send me to Hell if I don't?
According to the NT, you will not go to Hell until everyone believing in Jesus is killed for their beliefs. What kind of purgatory your soul endures until then depends on your beliefs.
GodLied.
Re: Re: Will I vote for God?
Actually, you will not go to hell until all possibilities to prevent you from ending up there has been exhausted, including your life here on earth.Originally posted by GodLied
According to the NT, you will not go to Hell until everyone believing in Jesus is killed for their beliefs. What kind of purgatory your soul endures until then depends on your beliefs.
Re: Re: Re: Will I vote for God?
Again, it is based on one's beliefs. One who does not believe in God will not go to Hell. Figments of one's imagination are nothing more than that, figments.
GodLied.
Originally posted by Jenyar
Actually, you will not go to hell until all possibilities to prevent you from ending up there has been exhausted, including your life here on earth.
Again, it is based on one's beliefs. One who does not believe in God will not go to Hell. Figments of one's imagination are nothing more than that, figments.
GodLied.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Will I vote for God?
He might still go to to hell, but it won't be for not believing in God. It will be because of his sins.Originally posted by GodLied
Again, it is based on one's beliefs. One who does not believe in God will not go to Hell. Figments of one's imagination are nothing more than that, figments.
Originally posted by Jenyar
That's like saying you'll turn the other cheek if they do.
But in case you misunderstood me before. There's a difference between "bashing" (hatred, slander, personal attacks, racism, etc.) and difference of opinion. I don't always agree with your views and I don't hesitate to voice my opinions, but I have never insulted or degraded you.
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M*W: Jenyar, you go out of your way to insult everything I have to say, but there is no way on Earth you can make me change what I believe.
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Besides, we're all brainwashed to different degrees. Some choose to call it education, others call it logic or common sense, some have more colourful names for it.
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M*W: Jenyar, I was in your shoes at one time, but I discovered the truth about what had been pounded into my head, and I wasn't afraid to leave it far behind me.
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Usually it comes down to preconception or even prejudice. The best we can all do is try to make ourselves and our positions clear, and let others decide for themselves.
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M*W: I believe we have done this. The regulars on this forum all know where everyone stands. It's the newbies that come onto this forum so innocently and try to convert everyone (if they're xian). It doesn't really matter, though, what our religious preferences are. The spirit inside us never changes.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Will I vote for God?
Sins are relative. Religious perception depends on belief. Firmly I find God to be a fraud. Therefore, the belief system based on the Holy Bible does not apply to my afterlife.
God said all green plants and seeded fruits are food. If you choose to believe in God, eat green leaves from white sap plants. If you choose to believe in God, eat castor butter from mashed castor seeds. Eat the most toxic biomass and see how long God will protect you from death. Failure for God to keep you alive, unharmed, and healthy will show God is a fraud.
Unfortunately, your belief system presumes it supersedes all others. As such, you are consistent with your belief that it may be imposed on everyone in the afterlife.
GodLied.
Originally posted by Jenyar
He might still go to to hell, but it won't be for not believing in God. It will be because of his sins.
Sins are relative. Religious perception depends on belief. Firmly I find God to be a fraud. Therefore, the belief system based on the Holy Bible does not apply to my afterlife.
God said all green plants and seeded fruits are food. If you choose to believe in God, eat green leaves from white sap plants. If you choose to believe in God, eat castor butter from mashed castor seeds. Eat the most toxic biomass and see how long God will protect you from death. Failure for God to keep you alive, unharmed, and healthy will show God is a fraud.
Unfortunately, your belief system presumes it supersedes all others. As such, you are consistent with your belief that it may be imposed on everyone in the afterlife.
GodLied.
No they're not. One sin breaks the whole Law.Sins are relative.
You tried this somewhere else. I answered you: Adam and Eve lived in paradise, the garden of Eden. First of all, you presume all plants we have today grew there. Before you accuse me again of accepting Darwinian evolution, please realize that evolution and adaptation does happen, so do mutations. The problem comes when you think life and consciousness evolved from dead material, but that's not the issue here.God said all green plants and seeded fruits are food. If you choose to believe in God, eat green leaves from white sap plants. If you choose to believe in God, eat castor butter from mashed castor seeds. Eat the most toxic biomass and see how long God will protect you from death. Failure for God to keep you alive, unharmed, and healthy will show God is a fraud.
They probably had a sufficient immune system to nuetralize anything that would be poisonous to us today, and I'm sure they had common sense (except when it came to trusting God). Even water can be poisonous if you misuse it.
My belief system has very little to do with everything if God did in fact create you along with life itself. Your natural disposition is to die. I'm not suggesting that will change.Unfortunately, your belief system presumes it supersedes all others. As such, you are consistent with your belief that it may be imposed on everyone in the afterlife.
Originally posted by Jenyar
No they're not. One sin breaks the whole Law.
You tried this somewhere else. I answered you: Adam and Eve lived in paradise, the garden of Eden. First of all, you presume all plants we have today grew there. Before you accuse me again of accepting Darwinian evolution, please realize that evolution and adaptation does happen, so do mutations. The problem comes when you think life and consciousness evolved from dead material, but that's not the issue here.
They probably had a sufficient immune system to nuetralize anything that would be poisonous to us today, and I'm sure they had common sense (except when it came to trusting God). Even water can be poisonous if you misuse it.
My belief system has very little to do with everything if God did in fact create you along with life itself. Your natural disposition is to die. I'm not suggesting that will change.
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M*W: Jenyar, I disagree. Our "natural disposition" is to live forever. I AM suggesting that WILL change.
Jenyar supports Darwinism, denounces Creationism, and insignifies his beliefs.
A sin is a bad thing. What is bad in one belief system may not be bad in another. Therefore, sins are relative to the belief system one uses.
For example, consider oposites. Baptists are sinners in the eyes of Unitarians. They are sinners for observing Jesus, praying to idols of him, wearing symbolic jewelry of him, and/or considering Jesus as God. In addition, Jews might find all whose religion is based on the NT are sinners following a false prophet.
If you do not get it yet: sin is relative.
According to Genesis, all plants did not originate in Eden. God made vegetation on Day 3, he made man on Day 6. He planted a garden and called it Eden. In Eden he put Adam and later Eve.
Read your Holy Bible for clarification.
Nowhere did I say all plants arose in Eden. However, I did say that God said all green plants and all seeded fruits are food, according to Genesis.
Jenyar, Darwinism is based on evolution. You agree evolution happens. Therefore you support Darwinism and denounce creationism. I thank you for denouncing God. You may now start to call yourself an atheist.
Jenyar, aspirin is a plant product. That product will kill a dog. It is not food for dogs yet it comes from vegetation.
Water is only bad if one inhales it or drinks excessive amounts of distilled water. Inhaled water drowns a person. Distilled water removes electrolytes from a person.
If God is such a creator, he would have to have created me according to your beliefs. So, since we are living and, according to Creationism, God created me; you state that your beliefs are insignificant relative to everything. Identifying insignificance of your beliefs means you denounce them. Denouncing them shows you denounce God. Officially, you are now an atheist.
GodLied.
A sin is a bad thing. What is bad in one belief system may not be bad in another. Therefore, sins are relative to the belief system one uses.
For example, consider oposites. Baptists are sinners in the eyes of Unitarians. They are sinners for observing Jesus, praying to idols of him, wearing symbolic jewelry of him, and/or considering Jesus as God. In addition, Jews might find all whose religion is based on the NT are sinners following a false prophet.
If you do not get it yet: sin is relative.
According to Genesis, all plants did not originate in Eden. God made vegetation on Day 3, he made man on Day 6. He planted a garden and called it Eden. In Eden he put Adam and later Eve.
Read your Holy Bible for clarification.
Nowhere did I say all plants arose in Eden. However, I did say that God said all green plants and all seeded fruits are food, according to Genesis.
Jenyar, Darwinism is based on evolution. You agree evolution happens. Therefore you support Darwinism and denounce creationism. I thank you for denouncing God. You may now start to call yourself an atheist.
Jenyar, aspirin is a plant product. That product will kill a dog. It is not food for dogs yet it comes from vegetation.
Water is only bad if one inhales it or drinks excessive amounts of distilled water. Inhaled water drowns a person. Distilled water removes electrolytes from a person.
If God is such a creator, he would have to have created me according to your beliefs. So, since we are living and, according to Creationism, God created me; you state that your beliefs are insignificant relative to everything. Identifying insignificance of your beliefs means you denounce them. Denouncing them shows you denounce God. Officially, you are now an atheist.
GodLied.
Originally posted by Jenyar
... ...First of all, you presume all plants we have today grew [in Eden].
...
<font color=red size=4>please realize that evolution and adaptation does happen, so do mutations.</font> ...
...Even water can be poisonous if you misuse it.
<font color=red size=4>My belief system has very little to do with everything if God did in fact create you along with life itself.</font> ... [/B]
Sins are against God, not against people. Among people, sin will be relative, because our relationships with each other are relative and subjective. That is why we cannot and should not judge each other. The Bible points it out, God will judge it.A sin is a bad thing. What is bad in one belief system may not be bad in another. Therefore, sins are relative to the belief system one uses.
For example, consider oposites. Baptists are sinners in the eyes of Unitarians. They are sinners for observing Jesus, praying to idols of him, wearing symbolic jewelry of him, and/or considering Jesus as God. In addition, Jews might find all whose religion is based on the NT are sinners following a false prophet.
I know you don't think the same plants that existed at the beginning of the earth still exist today, so why pretend you do? Neither do you believe that Genesis was inspired by God, so why pretend you do?According to Genesis, all plants did not originate in Eden. God made vegetation on Day 3, he made man on Day 6. He planted a garden and called it Eden. In Eden he put Adam and later Eve.
Nowhere did I say all plants arose in Eden. However, I did say that God said all green plants and all seeded fruits are food, according to Genesis.
You obviously weren't paying attention when you read the part where God planted the garden of Eden:
Gen.2
8 Now the LORD God had planted a garden in the east, in Eden; and there he put the man he had formed. 9 And the LORD God made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground-trees that were pleasing to the eye and good for food.
And what do you think the effect of the curse of sin had on the land Adam and Eve inhabited? The tree of knowledge might represent all things that weren't good for them. Maybe even poisonous fruit...
"Cursed is the ground because of you;
through painful toil you will eat of it
all the days of your life.
It will produce thorns and thistles for you,
and you will eat the plants of the field."
Obviously, not everything was beneficial to them at that stage. As I said, please don't pretend you think nothing has changed since Genesis 1.
You obviously have no idea what the difference between Darwinism and evolution is, do you? And who said I'm a creationist? I don't have to believe in either opposite to believe God could create by any means He choose, and make us understand what we need to know by any means available to us.Jenyar, Darwinism is based on evolution. You agree evolution happens. Therefore you support Darwinism and denounce creationism. I thank you for denouncing God. You may now start to call yourself an atheist.
Wow. You really slide when you've slipped, don't you?If God is such a creator, he would have to have created me according to your beliefs. So, since we are living and, according to Creationism, God created me; you state that your beliefs are insignificant relative to everything. Identifying insignificance of your beliefs means you denounce them. Denouncing them shows you denounce God. Officially, you are now an atheist.
Jenyar is anti-governmental. Jenyar is not a creationist.
Jenyar, your comment that we may not judge anyone means there should be no laws enforced by people against people. You clearly want removal of lawyers, judges, police, zoning departments, and government in general. Your stance is anti-governmental.
The tree of life was just that, a tree. Assigning it to a class of objects is ludicrous.
You have denounced creationism yet claim not to denounce God?
Do you not realize that denouncing creationism is equivalent to considering God's version of creation as fraudulent?
Jenyar, you are not firm in foundations of your own beliefs. Atheist is the wrong term for you. Your kind is known as agnostic. Agnostics say: I want to believe in God but I do not really believe God. Certainly, you are an agnostic.
GodLied.
Jenyar, your comment that we may not judge anyone means there should be no laws enforced by people against people. You clearly want removal of lawyers, judges, police, zoning departments, and government in general. Your stance is anti-governmental.
The tree of life was just that, a tree. Assigning it to a class of objects is ludicrous.
You have denounced creationism yet claim not to denounce God?
Do you not realize that denouncing creationism is equivalent to considering God's version of creation as fraudulent?
Jenyar, you are not firm in foundations of your own beliefs. Atheist is the wrong term for you. Your kind is known as agnostic. Agnostics say: I want to believe in God but I do not really believe God. Certainly, you are an agnostic.
GodLied.
Originally posted by Jenyar
...<font size=4 color=red> That is why we cannot and should not judge each other. The Bible points it out, God will judge it.
...
<font color=pink>The tree of knowledge might represent all things that weren't good for them. Maybe even poisonous fruit...
...
<font color=red> And who said I'm a creationist?<font color=green> I don't have to believe in either opposite to believe God could create by any means He choose, and make us understand what we need to know by any means available to us.
...
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Re: Jenyar is anti-governmental. Jenyar is not a creationist.
Luke 12
57"Why don't you judge for yourselves what is right? 58As you are going with your adversary to the magistrate, try hard to be reconciled to him on the way, or he may drag you off to the judge, and the judge turn you over to the officer, and the officer throw you into prison.
To him who overcomes, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.
Revelation 22:2
down the middle of the great street of the city. On each side of the river stood the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations.
Proverbs 3:18
She [Wisdom] is a tree of life to those who embrace her; those who lay hold of her will be blessed.
Doesn't sound like a normal tree to me. Normal trees might sustain temporary life, but what trees give eternal life?
No, God gave us guidelines to live by - the Ten Commandments, by which we are already judged. How we apply them is up to us. That needs judgement of a different kind - good judgement. Courts are neccesary to protect those laws. The people enforce, the courts judge. Courts do not create right and wrong, they just try to distill it from society, and I'm sure you are well aware of their weaknesses. Only God can truly judge without discrimination or bias. What we are trying to do is live under God's judgment as best we can, realizing that people who don't have God's interests (i.e. love, which is the end of the law) at heart, sabotage these efforts.Originally posted by GodLied
Jenyar, your comment that we may not judge anyone means there should be no laws enforced by people against people. You clearly want removal of lawyers, judges, police, zoning departments, and government in general. Your stance is anti-governmental.
Luke 12
57"Why don't you judge for yourselves what is right? 58As you are going with your adversary to the magistrate, try hard to be reconciled to him on the way, or he may drag you off to the judge, and the judge turn you over to the officer, and the officer throw you into prison.
Revelation 2:7The tree of life was just that, a tree. Assigning it to a class of objects is ludicrous.
To him who overcomes, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.
Revelation 22:2
down the middle of the great street of the city. On each side of the river stood the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations.
Proverbs 3:18
She [Wisdom] is a tree of life to those who embrace her; those who lay hold of her will be blessed.
Doesn't sound like a normal tree to me. Normal trees might sustain temporary life, but what trees give eternal life?
I denounce any -ism that limits God to our understanding. Genesis represents the truth by our understanding - it exposes our limitations and teaches us with respect to them, but it does not limit God. A poem might use metaphorical language to describe something that really happened with the intention of including its significance to the poet and the reader. The metaphors aren't "real" but they aren't lying, they still refer to the truth - in fact, they may describe a greater truth than any scientific account could have.You have denounced creationism yet claim not to denounce God?
Do you not realize that denouncing creationism is equivalent to considering God's version of creation as fraudulent?
You are trying so hard to rattle the tiles on the roof, that you don't realize the foundations of the house is solid as Rock. My beliefs and understanding of scripture might develop as my faith grows, but I depend completely on God for my faith.Jenyar, you are not firm in foundations of your own beliefs. Atheist is the wrong term for you. Your kind is known as agnostic. Agnostics say: I want to believe in God but I do not really believe God. Certainly, you are an agnostic.
GodLied.
B
buddhafish
Guest
didn't jesus say rich people can't go to heaven? (matthew 19:23-24 i think) i find it kind of tough to swallow every time the president bush says god is with him. maybe i am taking it too literally. not sure how else to take it, though.
:m: peace :m:
:m: peace :m:
If they cannot go to heaven, televangelists are condemned to Hell.
GodLied.
GodLied.
Originally posted by buddhafish
didn't jesus say rich people can't go to heaven? (matthew 19:23-24 i think) i find it kind of tough to swallow every time the president bush says god is with him. maybe i am taking it too literally. not sure how else to take it, though.
:m: peace :m:
Re: Re: Jenyar is anti-governmental. Jenyar is not a creationist.
<body bgcolor=green><font color=black >Jenyar, enforcing laws requires judging others. When you claim we should not judge others, you imply your stance is anti-governmental. You imply that you are an anarchist who is clearly defiant of rules and regulations.
In terms of what tree might give eternal life, the power grid is one option. We might sustain life indefinitely through biomass powered cryogenic coolers. The fuel may be vegetable oil, biodiesel, sugar, ethane, methane, and biomass. Whether recycled in heat exchangers, transformed by catalytic converters, or burnt; any vegetation might provide eternal life. However, some plants are better than others. Industrial hemp is one of them.
Jenyar, every -ism has its framework. That framework frames limitations. Your choice to denounce any -ism means that you denounce all religion and science. Yes, by denouncing words ending in -ism, you denounce all religious institutions and therefore their foundations. In doing so, you denounce the Holy Bible, Koran, Kama Sutra, Nercromnicon, and so on and so forth.
As a matter of fact, your denouncing -ism words prevents you from formalizing your own beliefs which might be coined: Jenyarism.
By denouncing all other belief systems, you lack faith in any existing religion. Therefore, you post on Sciforums to develop some semblance of your own belief. Truly, you are an agnostic searching for something special to tickle your want to have an all powerful god to call yours. Because your life is meaningless, you seek meaning through a god. My existence shattered your faith building adventure. From your response to my comment on family values in another post, you might have come from an abusive home where abuse was the means to discipline. I suggest learning the value of family through pets. In so doing you may rehabilitate crap pummelled into your brain over several years of your life. A counselor might assist you further.
GodLied.
<body bgcolor=green><font color=black >Jenyar, enforcing laws requires judging others. When you claim we should not judge others, you imply your stance is anti-governmental. You imply that you are an anarchist who is clearly defiant of rules and regulations.
In terms of what tree might give eternal life, the power grid is one option. We might sustain life indefinitely through biomass powered cryogenic coolers. The fuel may be vegetable oil, biodiesel, sugar, ethane, methane, and biomass. Whether recycled in heat exchangers, transformed by catalytic converters, or burnt; any vegetation might provide eternal life. However, some plants are better than others. Industrial hemp is one of them.
Jenyar, every -ism has its framework. That framework frames limitations. Your choice to denounce any -ism means that you denounce all religion and science. Yes, by denouncing words ending in -ism, you denounce all religious institutions and therefore their foundations. In doing so, you denounce the Holy Bible, Koran, Kama Sutra, Nercromnicon, and so on and so forth.
As a matter of fact, your denouncing -ism words prevents you from formalizing your own beliefs which might be coined: Jenyarism.
By denouncing all other belief systems, you lack faith in any existing religion. Therefore, you post on Sciforums to develop some semblance of your own belief. Truly, you are an agnostic searching for something special to tickle your want to have an all powerful god to call yours. Because your life is meaningless, you seek meaning through a god. My existence shattered your faith building adventure. From your response to my comment on family values in another post, you might have come from an abusive home where abuse was the means to discipline. I suggest learning the value of family through pets. In so doing you may rehabilitate crap pummelled into your brain over several years of your life. A counselor might assist you further.
GodLied.
Originally posted by Jenyar
...
Doesn't sound like a normal tree to me. Normal trees might sustain temporary life, but what trees give eternal life?
<font color=red size=4>
I denounce any -ism that limits God to our understanding. ...
... My beliefs and understanding of scripture might develop as my faith grows, but I depend completely on God for my faith. [/B]</font>
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Re: Re: Re: Jenyar is anti-governmental. Jenyar is not a creationist.
We are free to judge others by laws we will submit to ourselves. That much authority has been given to us. Anything else is hypocrisy. But the Bible goes much further than just the legal consequences, it stresses God's judgment over every instance of our lives - the only legal requirement is love for Him and one another.
Or do you forget that God also establishes authority on earth? Read Romans 13, "6This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. 7Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor."
But by what do you judge them? Law requires judging people's adherence to the law. Not even the law can judge others in the complete sense, their character or their eternal destination - it has no authority to, that is why even a known murderer can walk free if there is no condemning evidence against him.Originally posted by GodLied
Jenyar, enforcing laws requires judging others. When you claim we should not judge others, you imply your stance is anti-governmental. You imply that you are an anarchist who is clearly defiant of rules and regulations.
We are free to judge others by laws we will submit to ourselves. That much authority has been given to us. Anything else is hypocrisy. But the Bible goes much further than just the legal consequences, it stresses God's judgment over every instance of our lives - the only legal requirement is love for Him and one another.
Or do you forget that God also establishes authority on earth? Read Romans 13, "6This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. 7Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor."
All of those might sustain life, but none of them can give life.In terms of what tree might give eternal life, the power grid is one option. We might sustain life indefinitely through biomass powered cryogenic coolers. The fuel may be vegetable oil, biodiesel, sugar, ethane, methane, and biomass. Whether recycled in heat exchangers, transformed by catalytic converters, or burnt; any vegetation might provide eternal life. However, some plants are better than others. Industrial hemp is one of them.
Jenyarism does not limit God to my own understanding, and therefore I don't denounce it.Jenyar, every -ism has its framework. That framework frames limitations. Your choice to denounce any -ism means that you denounce all religion and science. Yes, by denouncing words ending in -ism, you denounce all religious institutions and therefore their foundations. In doing so, you denounce the Holy Bible, Koran, Kama Sutra, Nercromnicon, and so on and so forth.
As a matter of fact, your denouncing -ism words prevents you from formalizing your own beliefs which might be coined: Jenyarism.
I come from the most loving family I know. My parents have been happily married for 30 years and their own parents and those before them were married to the same person all their lives. My whole family and cousins (we are over forty grandchildren just on my father's side) are the closest friends a person could wish for. By any other standards, I should be able to have a very comfortable and trouble-free life without any religion. But I'd rather give God the credit He is due for my life.By denouncing all other belief systems, you lack faith in any existing religion. Therefore, you post on Sciforums to develop some semblance of your own belief. Truly, you are an agnostic searching for something special to tickle your want to have an all powerful god to call yours. Because your life is meaningless, you seek meaning through a god. My existence shattered your faith building adventure. From your response to my comment on family values in another post, you might have come from an abusive home where abuse was the means to discipline. I suggest learning the value of family through pets. In so doing you may rehabilitate crap pummelled into your brain over several years of your life. A counselor might assist you further.
He said it would be difficult - impossible for man, possible for God. A rich man belonging to God is just as saved as a poor man.Originally posted by buddhafish
didn't jesus say rich people can't go to heaven? (matthew 19:23-24 i think) i find it kind of tough to swallow every time the president bush says god is with him. maybe i am taking it too literally. not sure how else to take it, though.
:m: peace :m: