Bury the ship Columbus used to discover America on the moon, with a nice carving on the front that says, God wuz here. I would believe that.
Will this convert you to believe in God?
- Thread starter NDS
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Yeah, that goes with this verse:
John 20:30-31
And truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book; but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.
NKJV
So the Bible itself states that it mentioned the miracles to persuade people to believe in Jesus. Apparently God, who wrote the Bible through his disciples, admits that we need help to believe in Jesus.
I don't see how a miracle would prove anything. It would have to be something so extremely unlikely that there is no other explanation. Say, everyone on Earth suddenly found themselves holding an updated Bible, with new sections relevent to our times.
Ya, the new Bible will be one sentence: "Serve us, the priests, or burn forever."
You make a good point though. I would love a new Bible to come out which summarizes all the best points of the Old and New Testament, and gives us the main principles that we really need to know. What good is a really long book if no one gets anything out of it (or the mass of people)?
You make a good point though. I would love a new Bible to come out which summarizes all the best points of the Old and New Testament, and gives us the main principles that we really need to know. What good is a really long book if no one gets anything out of it (or the mass of people)?
I'm saying, if someone ripped up by Grandpa's grave, opened the coffin, and touched his skeleton (with his bare hands!!! No technology involved) causing him to reform into his former human self, I would be very inclined to believe in God. Your level of potential faith would have to go up, no matter who you are.
I could never tell myself, "There is no God, no matter what." That seems illogical. We don't know if the physical realm is the only realm. We don't know a lot of things. And we don't know what we don't know. Anything imaginable is possible plus infinity. True some things are more likely than others, but still, anything is a possibility.
How would you know it isn't just a highly advanced alien? How do you distinguish between a highly advanced alien and a god? Well, we could assume that god is alone in being omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent. The problem is testing those things. You could never establish it was any of them unless you were too.
I agree, but this is also why you can't jump to the conclusion that the existence of God (which one?) is what's behind the ability to raise the dead. We don't know lots of things, and it could just be that there is some way to raise the dead even 20 years post mortem that was discovered via science.
I said almost.
I would first think: shit - I'm losing my mind or I've been drugged.
But assuming that weeks go by and I can see that this person is indeed my dead relative AND they are telling me the are a servant of a God and everyone can meet this person as well (so it's not just in my head) - then I'd think either (a) they didn't really die (but suppose I know for a fact they did and I did see the body reincarnate from bones into a human flesh so the second option is (b) something has a lot of power to be able to do this and maybe it wants me to think of it as a God.
I think in the end I would still want a rational answer. I'm going powerful alien race - Oh Xenu how could I have doubted you
I would first think: shit - I'm losing my mind or I've been drugged.
But assuming that weeks go by and I can see that this person is indeed my dead relative AND they are telling me the are a servant of a God and everyone can meet this person as well (so it's not just in my head) - then I'd think either (a) they didn't really die (but suppose I know for a fact they did and I did see the body reincarnate from bones into a human flesh so the second option is (b) something has a lot of power to be able to do this and maybe it wants me to think of it as a God.
I think in the end I would still want a rational answer. I'm going powerful alien race - Oh Xenu how could I have doubted you
Yeah, true there's no way to verify it as being God. But if you (you in general) were God, what would you do to prove your existence to your people that you created if they will rationalize everything as being technology, magic, aliens, etc.? We always ask for proof of God's existence, yet there's nothing God can do to prove 100% that he exists. So we can't bash God for not proving his existence. Given that, it would be nice to see some kind of amazing miracle like a sea being split in half to grow a belief off of.
I simply would have given them the innate knowledge that I exist. Done, nobody argues. Nobody lands planes into buildings because their image of god differs to yours. Just an identical innate understanding of me.
The theists will inevitably chime in that "faith" is essential to know who really believes.. The whole statement is ludicrous if for nothing else because being omniscient I already know everything.
It would not force me to believe in God, but I would think it was amazing.
Great idea Snake!
Yeah, I agree with you on the point that "how can someone just choose to believe something." In Christianity, one must "choose" to believe something. How can you choose to believe something? To me, you need some kind of evidence, such as a miracle, to grow a belief out of. The Bible seems to agree with me too from the verse above. Like you said before SnakeLord, I can't just choose to believe in Leprachauns out of nowhere. It's not possible, no matter how hard I try.
Interesting idea with the giving people the innate knowledge of my existence (if I was God). I guess that would work. The only problem I guess would be the free will aspect. How much does knowing about the true nature of reality affect ability to choose. On the other hand, if we had innate knowledge of God's existence and the existence of the spiritual realm and Nirvana, then maybe we would have the choice to go there when we're ready instead of going to hell for eternity or turning into a frog in our next life.
Your point brings up another question. Lightgigantic always talks about how the goal in life or attaining Nirvana/Mocksha is in realizing or understanding the truth about the nature of reality, the classic Hindu doctrine. Like you said SnakeLord, why not just give everyone that understanding right off the bat? What's the point of blinding us? What is it accomplishing, besides suffering?
The Buddhists give us the eight noble truths or whatever for ending suffering. How about no suffering at all?
Interesting idea with the giving people the innate knowledge of my existence (if I was God). I guess that would work. The only problem I guess would be the free will aspect. How much does knowing about the true nature of reality affect ability to choose. On the other hand, if we had innate knowledge of God's existence and the existence of the spiritual realm and Nirvana, then maybe we would have the choice to go there when we're ready instead of going to hell for eternity or turning into a frog in our next life.
Your point brings up another question. Lightgigantic always talks about how the goal in life or attaining Nirvana/Mocksha is in realizing or understanding the truth about the nature of reality, the classic Hindu doctrine. Like you said SnakeLord, why not just give everyone that understanding right off the bat? What's the point of blinding us? What is it accomplishing, besides suffering?
The Buddhists give us the eight noble truths or whatever for ending suffering. How about no suffering at all?
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Indeed it is true and everyone knows it. One does not and cannot force upon themselves belief in anything. That belief must come from external experiences. Alas the theist tends to read anything into the most simplest, and stupidest, of things to protect his belief. My brother, who - after doing time for selling cocaine amongst other substances, became one of these christians that damns people like me to hell whenever we catch them out. So he spoke of miracles and stated how after finding a mole of some sort on his arm he prayed and the mole vanished. I asked him how he justified the removal of a mole by praying in comparison to the praying to save some poor 3 year old girl from rape and slaughter. At that stage I was doomed to hell once more. The beauty of it is that the belief, once established, is self protecting.
I got a cold.. My brother came round and said he was going to pray for me. I told him to shove it up his ass. Anyway.. a week later and I'm feeling much better...
"See, prayer does work".
What a f***ing tosspot.
But as stated, these things are self protecting. Even the smallest, and most pathetic, of things will be seen as confirmation of their beliefs. I see people like this all the time. The only difference between the people I see and theists is down to the risk that their freedom carries. While religion is clearly ultimtely the largest risk, it is too overwhelming in majority to do much about.. For the time being.
Ya, I don't like the people out there who are way over dramatic about their beliefs and who will say that every little positive thing that happens in their life is God's doing. And those same people will say that every bad thing that happens is simply God's work as well. So they can rationalize everything towards their own views. If they get a raise at work, God did it. If they get fired, God did it for their good. So no matter what happens one can say, "God did it." Instead, people who genuienly believe something should save the drama and work on their own life unless a clear opportunity presents itself to intervene.
Etiher way, the fact that mediums exist for example and the fact that scientists have verified their "psychic" knowledge strongly indicates the existence of a "soul" or "afterlife" of some kind to me. How can mediums know what they know and see and talk to dead people? That's freaky.
Etiher way, the fact that mediums exist for example and the fact that scientists have verified their "psychic" knowledge strongly indicates the existence of a "soul" or "afterlife" of some kind to me. How can mediums know what they know and see and talk to dead people? That's freaky.
Show me one scientific verification of anything "psychic". Show me one verified dead person talker, one genuine "medium". What next.. you actually believe in your "stars" and get tarot done frequently? The beauty is that nobody sees the con for the con it is. Indeed they pay those con merchants for the privilege of being conned. How many people do you think phone for their star chart or phone those porn lines thinking they're actually talking to someone sexy?
As for "soul": http://www.atheists.org/Atheism/mind.html
As for the afterlife I can only direct you to one of my threads concerning it. The whole idea, if given real thought, is so stupid as to be unworthy of real consideration. I leave it with you.