Will machines become conscious someday?

Motor Daddy said:
The decision making process. Here's how it goes:

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How do we develop alternatives if all we have in hand is facts?
 
billvon said:
The emergent property of consciousness will eventually arise when an intelligent system becomes complex enough. At that point half the people on this forum will argue "it's not REALLY conscious" and the machine will reply "yes I am! I am as conscious as you are."
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I agree with you that complexity is important to consciousness, but only because it creates random possibilities in the brain.
 
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Le Repteux said:
How do we develop alternatives if all we have in hand is facts?
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Well you have to be smart. Are you? That's one of the great things about being a Human, vs, say, a rock. Rocks aren't smart, they can't make decisions. But if you're smart you try to make the best decision you can with the available information. You identify the problem, say, how many cookies do you want to grab out of the cookie jar. You open the lid and the problem smacks you right in the face! You have to weigh the options. Remember your diet? Remember what the Doc told you about too much sugar? Remember how the cookies tasted like crap? Remember how the size of the cookie is small, which affects how many you are gonna grab? So many decisions to make. Can you handle it by yourself, or do you need someone to guide you???
 
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How do you weight the options if you only have your mind on hand? Isn't it inevitable that you can make mistakes, and if you know you can, aren't you taking some risks? Moreover, doing something uncertain that is going to have consequences in the future, aren't you playing dice in your head? To me, to be smart is about not taking chances, but if nobody would take chances nowhere, could we progress?
 
Le Repteux said:
How do you weight the options if you only have your mind on hand? Isn't it inevitable that you can make mistakes, and if you know you can, aren't you taking some risks? Moreover, doing something uncertain that is going to have consequences in the future, aren't you playing dice in your head? To me, to be smart is about not taking chances, but if nobody would take chances nowhere, could we progress?
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So you need help at the cookie jar?
 
Le Repteux said:
I like to take chances, so I rarely need help to decide what I am going to do...[snip]
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So you're saying you don't think too much about decisions, as a matter of fact you never even thought to go grab a cookie or two or three. Is it easier to let others do the thinking for you? Kind of lazy in that regard, are you?
 
Motor Daddy said:
So you're saying you don't think too much about decisions, as a matter of fact you never even thought to go grab a cookie or two or three. Is it easier to let others do the thinking for you? Kind of lazy in that regard, are you?
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There are different kinds of personality: those who like to act, those who like to think, and those who like to avoid both. But there is also different kinds of actions: those which concern others, and those which concern things. I am of those who like to think about things. If I understand well, with regard to chance, those who like to control others think differently than those who act for themselves: the firsts do not believe in chance, whereas the seconds do. If you are from the firsts, and I am from the seconds, we might not get to the same conclusion about the way we think, are we?
 
Le Repteux said:
There are different kinds of personality: those who like to act, those who like to think, and those who like to avoid both. But there is also different kinds of actions: those which concern others, and those which concern things. I am of those who like to think about things. If I understand well, with regard to chance, those who like to control others think differently than those who act for themselves: the firsts do not believe in chance, whereas the seconds do. If you are from the firsts, and I am from the seconds, we might not get to the same conclusion about the way we think, are we?
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I'm just asking if you are capable of making a decision on your own when you open the cookie jar and have to decide how many cookies to grab. Have you ever made that decision on your own, or do you need help deciding?
 
I already said that I did not need help to decide what I had to do, so maybe your question is not precise enough, because I don't understand why you repeat it. I am talking about the possibility that our ideas can suffer mutations, because there is a flagrant analogy to make with the way species change their DNA. I suggest that, like the species, without chance, our ideas could not change. You like this idea or not? And if not, why?
 
Le Repteux said:
I already said that I did not need help to decide what I had to do, so maybe your question is not precise enough, because I don't understand why you repeat it.
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That's my point. You make decisions on your own, without outside influence. That's the only point I was making, and you confirmed it, that we make decisions on our own.

So if we make decisions on our own, how does God somehow affect how many cookies you grab, or does he??
 
If we make decisions on our own, but that these decisions contain a certain amount of risk or uncertainty, then it means that we toss dimes somehow in our head in case it would favor us. Isn't it a kind of prayer?
 
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