Why would there be a god?

[Streamline]

perhaps it just me, could you explain as you seem to be the intelligent one, how the information in my computer, is immaterial? thank you
as I can see it and it can be measured, it has body and form.

The software is imaterial information. However the implementation is not, ie magnetic disturbances on the harddisk, electronic charge in the RAM etc.

Same with the soul, the soul is immaterial as a concept, however the implementation is in the brain among other things is material.

Thus both the software and the soul is immaterial - just information; however not their respective imlementations.

Every heard of immaterial rights; copyright and trademarks. These are represented as information only; however their implementation can be on paper, said out load etc. Still it is called immaterial rights.

 

[Cris]

Streamline,

The software is imaterial information.

You need to think about this a little more. Information is not immaterial. It exists in some very material form otherwise you would not know about it.

However the implementation is not, ie magnetic disturbances on the harddisk, electronic charge in the RAM etc.

What then is software if it is not implemented? If software exists then it is held in one of the material forms you describe plus others.

Same with the soul, the soul is immaterial as a concept,

Well no. The soul is being presented as a real immaterial object – that is the fundamental issue here. A concept can refer to both immaterial objects (whether they exist or not) as well as material objects.

however the implementation is in the brain among other things is material.

If that were true then the soul would be material, just like software. You need to think this through a little more, you are simply confused. Consider what happens when the (in your terms) implementation dies, i.e. the brain, does the soul continue to exist? If yes then how?

Every heard of immaterial rights; copyright and trademarks. These are represented as information only; however their implementation can be on paper, said out load etc. Still it is called immaterial rights.

Yes wonderful and very funny. The usage in that context is not the same as we are using here. Material here means physical and immaterial means supernatural.

 

[Streamline]

Streamline,

You need to think about this a little more. Information is not immaterial. It exists in some very material form otherwise you would not know about it.

What then is software if it is not implemented? If software exists then it is held in one of the material forms you describe plus others.

Well no. The soul is being presented as a real immaterial object – that is the fundamental issue here. A concept can refer to both immaterial objects (whether they exist or not) as well as material objects.

If that were true then the soul would be material, just like software. You need to think this through a little more, you are simply confused. Consider what happens when the (in your terms) implementation dies, i.e. the brain, does the soul continue to exist? If yes then how?

Yes wonderful and very funny. The usage in that context is not the same as we are using here. Material here means physical and immaterial means supernatural.

Have you not noticed that one can speak of the soul without refering to the supernatural. For example, SOS, save our souls, refer that notion of the self the exists. The self is not the brain, however it dependes on the brain. Just as software can be spoken of without specifically refering to what form it is stored in, in other words immaterial, the soul can be spoken of as immaterial. You do not seem to understand that immaterial refers to something without specifcally refering to how it is implemeted. I am not refering to the supernatural when I speak of immaterial software or immaterial souls, maybe you are. I think you are just confusing the way soul is used in christian terms; I use it without refering to any religion.

 

[JC Souljah]

Hey why don't y'all check up www.answersingenesis.org
don't u think there must have been someone to create the world we live in, the universe, the people and animals we see everyday...and for all da negative stuff happening well don't blame GOD coz He loves us so much that He gave us free will and u kno that giving someone a choice of their own shows love...so we are the ones to blame for the bombings, murders, AIDS and so forth because we decided to abuse what GOD has blessed us with...now thinking that their is no GOD is for sho absurd because u then have no purpose in life now do u?!?!...wat we do here on earth determines whether we spend ETERNITY in Heaven or in Hell???
just take a minute to ask yourself...

 

[KennyJC]

just take a minute to ask yourself...

I have, but I haven't chosen to beleive in whatever explanation I like best, since I know no better than you, even you clearly claim to have a deep understanding of 'God'.

For example, string theory has a sister theory that the universe could've been created by two 'membranes' coliding and all that energy 'had to go somewhere'. Although still an unlikely theory, I would say it is more likely than the heaven and hell concept along with an old dude with a white beard watching over us all, oh and who also "luvs uz sooooo much"...

 

[duendy]

There is a secret society of teletubbies living underground in the planet Pluto. That is a fact. I for one, however, believe that it's not true. It just doesn't make sense. Why would they live there? Why would they even exist?

Point:

I believe it's a false fact even though I can't prove it. Is this unreasonable?

I disbelieve in it on the grounds that it is an absurd, irrational and arbitrary notion. Just like God.

yes i believe it is a ridiculous notion. as is the idea of some all seeing white bearded father sat on a cloud watchin us all like a glorified CCTV camera

but. there is more to you than your conscious awareness. what may seem absurd tto you on tis level of awareness may not seem so on anothe level

for example, people, ven so-called athiests have been reported to have NDEs when they have said they met 'God' or 'Jesus'....for the it is very real indeed

i have also heard people from other cultures with a different religious tradition experience images and gods from that belief system...what doe this tell us?

that it is easy to be cocksure on tis level of awareness--the conscious level, yet in dreams, NDE's etc it may be so. but does that make it TRUE?

ahaaaaahhh. thia is interesting ......what does true mean?

my view is this. i am uneasy wit pope taking their visionsseriously. more so because what we have seen over our history is tis: people have visions. tese get taken over by a presthood and writ down. and trhen you get solid belief systes and thes conflict with other sold belief systems and from there have come wars and all kinds of violenceetc......conflicts between different groups of people with different 'gods'

so what i feel is the more intelligentway is understanding the origian of the god FEELING

this means,i am proposing tat primoridially, the whole notion of gods and 'GOd' came from ecstatic experience. the sens that our conscious level has been profoundly expanded

that CA be poven. all you have to do is have the curiousity to take a pinch of psychedelic! then you will see for yourself

 

[apendrapew]

Wow duendy. Not to be rude or anything.. but it is really hard to read your posts. I wonder if better or worse.

 

[Hapsburg]

It is not absurd, irrational or arbitrary to be deist.

To be a deist is quite reasonable.

A little story of the future to help you understand:

In the future, computers and AI have improves so much that simulation of entire universes is possible, a complete simlulatino of earths history for example is possible. The big bang is simulated, evolution and all else. Now souls can be thus simulated. The souls in the simulatin now ask themselves, are there Gods? The answer is of course that the computer simulators (humans) are Gods to the simulated souls.

In the same waý this universe can be possible simulated. Gods to us would therefore be the computer simulators of our universe.

Did you get the point?

Being a deist is rational.
Being a christian is most definently not.

 

[duendy]

Wow duendy. Not to be rude or anything.. but it is really hard to read your posts. I wonder if better or worse.

thanks amate. very senstively put. usually i am used to hostile reacinions....i have a very micro keyboard with things in odd places.....culdn't efvn type that good on a bigger one and i've only been on tis a bit.....get cut off the internat after a time...am passionate and improvisional andlose track of time...so mistakes happen. i dont have a computer tingy for mistakes so say i have done a mistake ,,,i would have to go cack lettere by fukin letter...sorry

to summarize hopefully in better form

'god' really i believe.orignated as an actual ecstatic sensual feeling, of awesome degrees..via psychedelic experiece....then this becomes 'reformed' and what is left is symbols which become the 'God' that is usually dogmatized by the various faiths

 

[audible]

oh mighty streamline:

In the beginning, God created the RAM and the ROM. And the core was empty, and the CPU was idle, and the registers thereof were all zero. And God said, "Let there be power." And there was power. And God saw the power that it was good, and God divided between the zeroes and the ones, and he called the ones "true," and the zeroes he called, "false." And there was power-down, and there was power-up, the first cycle.

And God said, "Let there be a division between the RAM and the ROM, that the one be volatile, and the one not," and it was so. And God made the division, to divide between memory and memory. And there was power-down, and there was power-up, the second cycle.

And God said, "Let there be ROM subroutines in the ROM," and it was so. And the ROM brought forth subroutines and all the pointers thereof. And God saw the subroutines that they were good. And there was power-down, and there was power-up, the third cycle.

And God said, "Let there be power-supplies, to supply power to the CPU and the core and all the peripherals thereof." And God made the power-supplies, the Uninterruptible Power Supplies to power the larger systems, and the Surge Supressors to power the smaller systems. And God saw the power- supplies that they were good. And there was power-down, and there was power-up, the fourth cycle.

And God said, "Let the RAM teem with programs and compilers and interpreters, with all the pointers thereof," and it was so. And God made all the programs: the databases and spreadsheets and compilers and interpreters and all the DOC files thereof. And God saw the programs that they were good. And there was power-down, and there was power-up, the fifth cycle.

And God said, "Let there be users, and let them have dominion over all the programs in the operating system, and all those not in it, and over all the subroutines in the ROM below." And God created the users, both programmer and operator he created them, to be masters of the core. And he commanded them, "Be fruitful, and multiply the programs and their complexity over all the system." And God looked upon all he had made, and found it was very good. And there was power-down, and there was power-up, the sixth cycle.

Thus was the system finished, and on the seventh cycle God rested, and the CPU was idle. And God blessed the seventh cycle, for on that cycle he finished all the work which he had done.

Mark E. Shoulson)

 

[jhuang]

i'm an atheist, but i can understand the motive for creating an idea of god. religion was created to make sense of life's mysteries. teletubbies living inside pluto has nothing to do with anything and doesn't try to make sense of anything either.