Why would theists talk about God to non-theists, if not to proselytize?

[wynn]

In another thread, a poster said that not all theists want non-theists to believe in God.

I find this to be an extraordinary idea. My own experience and understanding of theism so far has been that theists talk to non-theists about God for the purpose of converting them.

What other reason could there be?
Why would theists talk about God to non-theists, if not to proselytize?

 

[Lori_7]

because it's a fucking religious discussion forum dumb fuck, where non-theists like you start threads every five fucking minutes, asking us the same fucking questions over and over again.

i apologize for seeming hateful signal, but i honestly can't help but want to bitch slap you into next week.

have you considered that your experience and understanding is the result of your own desires and behaviors and not the theists?

in other threads you have insisted that theists be put in this position have you not? you're getting exactly what you ask for, or demand rather. no one is responsible for putting you in that position but yourself. isn't that correct?

if you want to be a victim, and allow yourself to be, there are plenty of people out there that will be more than happy to satisfy your desire. do you find that to be an extraordinary idea?

 

[Yazata]

In another thread, a poster said that not all theists want non-theists to believe in God.

Whoever said it, I definitely agree with it.

I find this to be an extraordinary idea. My own experience and understanding of theism so far has been that theists talk to non-theists about God for the purpose of converting them.

Many of the theists I know (mostly Christians, plus some Jews and deist-types) are pretty relaxed about their theism. They believe that there's some transcendental higher-power, they usually imagine it in personal terms, and they typically think that their own ancestral religion's scriptures and traditions have some kind of revelatory relationship with this thing. But they generally think that this higher power is probably going to accept every sincere person with a good heart.

There's often quite a bit of universalism associated with these views, the idea that all religions ultimately employ their very different doctrines and imagery to point towards the same transcendental object. The various religions represent the endless variety of human responses to the divine.

It's probably going to be hard getting any solid poll data on it, but my intuitive sense is that these kind of ideas represent one of the most common varieties of religious view here in the San Francisco Bay Area. It's probably associated with the region's extraordinary religious eclecticism.

What other reason could there be?
Why would theists talk about God to non-theists, if not to proselytize?

Maybe this transcendental object of theirs is a major interest in their lives and they just want to talk about it. Maybe they are curious about what their neighbors believe.

 

[wynn]

because it's a fucking religious discussion forum dumb fuck, where non-theists like you start threads every five fucking minutes, asking us the same fucking questions over and over again.

i apologize for seeming hateful signal, but i honestly can't help but want to bitch slap you into next week.

have you considered that your experience and understanding is the result of your own desires and behaviors and not the theists?

in other threads you have insisted that theists be put in this position have you not? you're getting exactly what you ask for, or demand rather. no one is responsible for putting you in that position but yourself. isn't that correct?

if you want to be a victim, and allow yourself to be, there are plenty of people out there that will be more than happy to satisfy your desire. do you find that to be an extraordinary idea?

All you accomplish with such talk is that I am put off.
No matter what I say, you spin it so that it is to my disadvantage.
You are the one who keeps derailing my threads into unnecessary ad hominems.
I am putting you back on ignore, and your husband.

 

[Lori_7]

All you accomplish with such talk is that I am put off.
No matter what I say, you spin it so that it is to my disadvantage.
You are the one who keeps derailing my threads into unnecessary ad hominems.
I am putting you back on ignore, and your husband.

i understand you being put off by the 1st 2 lines of that post, but the rest of it are legitimate questions, that if you would answer honestly, would solve your desperate ongoing dilemma. i wonder how many years, decades have to pass, and how many rational, logical people who are honestly trying to help you, will have to tell you the same thing before you get a clue.

good, put me on ignore. i'll be less frustrated with you that way. my husband though shouldn't be guilty by association i don't think. my husband is a hell of a lot nicer than i am. just sayin...

 

[wynn]

Lori, you are being codependent, and you are trying to control me.
Get out of my threads.

 

[Adstar]

In another thread, a poster said that not all theists want non-theists to believe in God.

I find this to be an extraordinary idea. My own experience and understanding of theism so far has been that theists talk to non-theists about God for the purpose of converting them.

What other reason could there be?
Why would theists talk about God to non-theists, if not to proselytize?

Well it is always my hope that someone will be moved during a conversation about God a little bit closer to God.

But i can think of another possible reason for a Theist to talk to a Non-theist. If the Theists believes that the non-theist is misinformed about the Theists believes to motivate them to persecute, attack or even seek to kill the Theist. The Theist may want to correct any misconceptions of the Non-theist so as to prevent unnecessary hate or violence.

Of course as a Theist is understand there are people who will hate me and seek bad for me when they do understand my beliefs. I accept that as part and parcel of being true to the Word of God. But i would never want to see a non-theist attack me because of a misconception about my beliefs.

If i am going to face persecution, i want to face it from a true anti-christ, not form some confused individual who is attacking me for something that has nothing to do with me.

Oh and i have stated before that i will discuss something with a person i consider an knowing anti-christ for the sake of the third persons that may be following the conversation. So that’s an occasion when i will talk to someone whom i don't believe will ever believe and be saved.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Lori_7]

Lori, you are being codependent, and you are trying to control me.
Get out of my threads.

codependent because i'm married? trying to control you by asking you legitimate questions?
:crazy:

which you repeatedly refuse to answer.

and which leads me to believe that you are either a lying troll, or have psychological problems that are apparently way beyond the scope of a sciforums discussion. after all, you've been out here for YEARS, whining about the same problem, which is YOUR problem, and doing nothing but blaming others for it, claiming it's someone else's responsibility to solve it. and i'm done with you.

ps...the ignore button is for pussies.

 

[SciWriter]

Thinking one’s self as to be made by Gods is a high and haughty position indeed, one that is not only unsubstantiated but for which the opposite has been found. Do some truly believe in their highness? Yes, but it is nonsense just the same. Some even think they are God, indirectly. The ego, useful for survival, has thus climbed out of its skin, for many, for them to claim the ultimate specialness, in its pride. Ever so humble—not.

(I put Lori on ignore, too, a very useful option that brings peace.)

 

[Jan Ardena]

SciWriter,

Thinking one’s self as to be made by Gods is a high and haughty position indeed, one that is not only unsubstantiated but for which the opposite has been found.

No it's not.
It does not have to be substantiated.
The opposite, however, (unconcious things creating themself is nonsensical, what to speak of ''unsubstantiated'') has not been found.
It is merely the only alternative explanation, and as such, has to be believed.

Do some truly believe in their highness?

There are some situations in which common sense prevails. This is one.

Yes, but it is nonsense just the same.

Life coming from life is not nonsense.
Life coming from dead matter is.

Some even think they are God, indirectly.

Yes, to the point where they say God Himself does not exist.

The ego, useful for survival, has thus climbed out of its skin, for many, for them to claim the ultimate specialness, in its pride. Ever so humble—not.

Read above.


jan.

 

[SciWriter]

Jan has been added to my ignore list. Nothing personal; it's just the continuing pronouncements.


Man was too close to himself, to his own activities, and to the Earth in the early days before much was known about more, and even now for whom the known doesn’t matter, and so he thinks himself made by Gods, which is perhaps the most simplistic of all notional thought, and ever carried to extreme. It first came of fear and then of ego for some. Some of the schemes are still punitive and some rather vainglorious, but, still, just schemes.


The rejection of science by religionists, or insistence on rewriting it to support religious claims, is detrimental to the teaching of science. However, I think understanding how supernaturalists think is still a worthwhile psychological pursuit, because it illuminates how psyches work in general, which is critical knowledge.

 

[wynn]

Jan -
Since you're here, could you say something in response to the OP?

 

[spidergoat]

In another thread, a poster said that not all theists want non-theists to believe in God.

I find this to be an extraordinary idea. My own experience and understanding of theism so far has been that theists talk to non-theists about God for the purpose of converting them.

What other reason could there be?
Why would theists talk about God to non-theists, if not to proselytize?

To feel superior. Or to simply inform or make conversation. Not all theists care if other people believe. I think Jews are fairly ambivalent about it.

 

[jpappl]

Jan,

“ Yes, but it is nonsense just the same. ”

Life coming from life is not nonsense.
Life coming from dead matter is.

Then where did god come from and who created it ?

If we can create life, in a lab for example, are we gods ? or will you stop believing in a god because we did ?

To answer the op, I believe that for many, not all, but many there is a need for others to believe the same, it simply strengthens the belief and humans typically are in need of a sense of belonging. Which is why people go to church or rock concerts or sporting events.

 

[Jan Ardena]

SciWriter,

Jan has been added to my ignore list. Nothing personal; it's just the continuing pronouncements.

Because you cannot respond.

Man was too close to himself, to his own activities, and to the Earth in the early days before much was known about more, and even now for whom the known doesn’t matter, and so he thinks himself made by Gods, which is perhaps the most simplistic of all notional thought, and ever carried to extreme. It first came of fear and then of ego for some. Some of the schemes are still punitive and some rather vainglorious, but, still, just schemes.

Were you there in the early days?
The vedas were concieved (for the sake of argument) in those early days (early according to the introduction of modern man theory). These vedic literatures contain knowledge which modern man only recently acquired through scientific means. How do you account for that?

There is only one God, I think you mean gods.

Yeah! Early man was so fearful he learned about the cosmos.

The rejection of science by religionists, or insistence on rewriting it to support religious claims, is detrimental to the teaching of science.

Bullshit statement.

However, I think understanding how supernaturalists think is still a worthwhile psychological pursuit, because it illuminates how psyches work in general, which is critical knowledge.

You're not interested in how ''supernaturalists'' shrug think (if I understand you correctly), you only want to win.


jan.

 

[wynn]

Thinking one’s self as to be made by Gods is a high and haughty position indeed,

I don't think so.

Many theists when they make claims about God, imply that they are epistemically above the ordinary folk, superior to the ordinary folk in some way.
Which, in and of itself, is not a problem.
(And yes, we are talking about epistemic or other superiority. If any ordinary person could come to knowledge of God, they would. But they, evidently, do not.)

But if knowledge of God is paramount for people (regarding the quality of their daily lives, and in its extreme form, when it concerns the eternal destiny of mankind), then theists have an obligation to bring others to that same knowledge of God.

Yet they tend to refuse to do so, and tend to blame the people for not coming to the proper knowledge of God.

 

[wynn]

you only want to win.

Fortunately or unfortunately, with the attitudes that theists often display, it indeed comes down to interpersonal politics.

 

[Jan Ardena]

Jan -
Since you're here, could you say something in response to the OP?

There's nothing to say about the opening post as it assumes a kind of generalisation and is dependant on the individuals personal experiences.

However, I will say that you should listen to Lori.


jan.

 

[Me-Ki-Gal]

i understand you being put off by the 1st 2 lines of that post, but the rest of it are legitimate questions, that if you would answer honestly, would solve your desperate ongoing dilemma. i wonder how many years, decades have to pass, and how many rational, logical people who are honestly trying to help you, will have to tell you the same thing before you get a clue.

good, put me on ignore. i'll be less frustrated with you that way. my husband though shouldn't be guilty by association i don't think. my husband is a hell of a lot nicer than i am. just sayin...

Were did you learn such language Lori ? Cover My Ears Na Na Na Na Na Na Na !!!! You been listening to Methinks. You guys I miss spelled a word and I googled it and you would not believe what came up ? The word was Cercomstance . Evidently it was a proper spelling in the 1600s . Now this is freaky . When I misspelled the word it did not come up in my spell check as miss spelled . This is the shit I am talking about . Now it does ! Something wanted Me to see a historical event in the past . I read most of it . It was dead on in support of my rhetoric of of victimization . A rape case came up . It was a rape case from 1640 something ,I don't remember for sure, I would have to regoogle to see the exact date . Not to many rape cases back in the day . I imagine in the 1600s the world attitude towards women was worse than even the Islamic attitude today . It may be one of the only recorded rape cases brought to trial in the time period ? I don't know ? I doubt it was common in any case . Any history buffs out there ? It is worth a looksy
" Cercomstance"" Google it

 

[Jan Ardena]

jpappl,

Then where did god come from and who created it ?

God is.
He is neither created or destroyed. Such is His nature.

If we can create life, in a lab for example, are we gods ? or will you stop believing in a god because we did ?

We can create life.
We are not gods.
And we don't need a lab.
Life comes from life.


jan.