Why Sufis are considered deviated by some!

[Bruce Wayne]

Looking forward to seeing the hadithes about commiting suicide in this thread soon.

You misunderstood. I am already trying to help people understand. As for the hadiths, do consider a good excersise and go fetch some.

I believe you can discuss matters by acting better.

You mean by not questioning you?

Just think that Islam does not in need of anyone's protection or defense. It is enough to defend itself.

It is whe one learns about it. Here though I see you mutilating concepts such as the day of judgment. I mean the Day of judgment.

We should be open to new ideas,but that is no license to do whatever we want. It is no license for one to say:" I am god" (the al-hallag fellow) ot to deny resurrection.

 

[Sufi]

Question do sufi's blow people up(suicide bombers) in the name of allah (who does not like them using is name in such a way)

Men kill others it in the name of their 'God' that they imagine to be out there, with the expectation of some favor from their god in return, not in the name of Allah. Yet, common people do not question about it at all. People usually label the image of god in their minds as Allah based on hearsay and without learning about and thinking on the teachings of Mohammed (pbuh) and the Koran, and then swallow such acts without questioning.

If we may understand that ALLAH is not a god out-there but is limitless one and therefore is the reality of everything we perceive and is within the essence of every being, then we wouldn't be able to give the least harm to any creature in the name of a god or by expecting favor from an external entity.

Parallelly, there are many notifications of Mohammed (pbuh) to show us that it is a sign of 'lack of belief in Allah' to commit suicide.

I am still expecting some forum friends who have hadith softwares or online sources to copy and paste here some of the hadithes of RasulAllah about comitting suicide, and show people how Muslims can be ignorant about the teachings of RasulAllah and can even act against them.

 

[Sufi]

Sufi,

Allah is a noun as you have said, it is therefore a thing, an entity of some unknown type.

Kat

No, what is referred to as Allah is a "meaning" that should be thought and believed.

Well that’s nice but I think you have made it quite clear that this Allah something doesn’t exist.

This makes me really smile

No.. probably, I have made it quite clear that god is something that doesn’t exist.

Allah is what IS already, --not something that can exist or nonexist.

 

[Leo Volont]

I've read a number of books regarding Sufism.

I know that Sufis have endured a lot of intimidation from the Mullahs and so they have to pretend to believe in Islam, but, really, don't Sufis PREDATE Islam? Aren't Sufis more akin to Zoroastrians or Pharsees then they are to Islam?

Afterall, Sufis are far and away above the Jihad-Minded "Kill the Infidel" Menatality and Foundational Doctrines of Islam. Indeed, reading the literature I have always picked up on a subtle embarrassment of Sufis that they have had so little influence over Islam.

What is wrong with you? Haven't you been paying attention? Are you a Sufi or are you one of them?

 

[Leo Volont]

One Sufi source I was reading took the premise that because Sufi Poets in Spain were writing Devotional Poetry about the Blessed Virgin, that they influenced Marian Catholicism. Duh! Sounds like it might be the other way around.

It seems that the further the Sufis got from the Islamic Mullahs, the less Muslim they were in thought and behavior. the Sufis were to retain their Marian Devotion, but in secret. The Devotional Poetry of Sufis back in the center of the Islamic World would remain specified to the Nameless, out of fear for what the Mullahs would think.

Why is it that you love that which all other Sufis only fear? Islam.

 

[Sufi]

I've read a number of books regarding Sufism.

I know that Sufis have endured a lot of intimidation from the Mullahs and so they have to pretend to believe in Islam, but, really, don't Sufis PREDATE Islam? Aren't Sufis more akin to Zoroastrians or Pharsees then they are to Islam?

Afterall, Sufis are far and away above the Jihad-Minded "Kill the Infidel" Menatality and Foundational Doctrines of Islam. Indeed, reading the literature I have always picked up on a subtle embarrassment of Sufis that they have had so little influence over Islam.

What is wrong with you? Haven't you been paying attention? Are you a Sufi or are you one of them?

Ouw no! tell me what should I do now?

Instead of a number of books regarding Sufism, I think, to avoid müsunderstandings, you should give your time to read books written by sufi authors.

 

[Leo Volont]

Ouw no! tell me what should I do now?

Instead of a number of books regarding Sufism, I think, to avoid müsunderstandings, you should give your time to read books written by sufi authors.

They were.

Who the heck else would write about Sufism.

Indra Shah, and some other guy that just recently died. I heard of his death and that he had been a big deal Sufi and so I went online and bought his book.

Besides, in my old hippy days I used to visit Sufi Communities. I probably know more about Sufism then you do.

 

[Sufi]

One Sufi source I was reading took the premise that because Sufi Poets in Spain were writing Devotional Poetry about the Blessed Virgin, that they influenced Marian Catholicism. Duh! Sounds like it might be the other way around.

It seems that the further the Sufis got from the Islamic Mullahs, the less Muslim they were in thought and behavior. the Sufis were to retain their Marian Devotion, but in secret. The Devotional Poetry of Sufis back in the center of the Islamic World would remain specified to the Nameless, out of fear for what the Mullahs would think.

Why is it that you love that which all other Sufis only fear? Islam.

Islam is my way of life. Islam is the way of life of every human being who is aware of the truth about life and himself. But I am afraid many like you are still confusing Islam with peoples' Muslimism.

Sufi is a name given by Muslims to those who had a deep spiritual understanding of Islam, who devote their lives to experience the truth that Mohammed and other Rasuls (pbuh) explained to mankind as informed in the Koran.

All muslims including Mullahs and all thinking people who are aware of truth have and have always had sympathy for those spiritual masters, in history and to date, they love them, respect them and share with them..

 

[Preacher_X]

hey i havent visisted the religion forum for a long time.

anyway that was a good posts and what you said is right.

there are loads of mosques like that and i go to ones like that. but then again alot of Muslims nowadays are just power hungry TEP's who run the mosques also there culture has deluded them from Islam and nationalism has broken the Muslim world up nbit by bit. near my house, there is a Bangladeshi and a Pakistani mposque right next to each other... why?? the mosque is not what its supposed to be anymore. its a place where old bearded men talk about culture nowadays. the mosque shoild be an open houe and a a palce whewre the Muslims community gets together.

unforturtanely we have a generation of corrupt Muslims now which is our own fault. But as Allah [promised this would oneday hapen he pormised we would get out of this.

i dont know anything about Sufis but anyone who says the Shahada in truth is a Muslim to me. i dont know much about Sufis like i said but if people say Shahda but change the words of the Quran then they are not Muslims but there are different ways of looking at things and differwent view points can be taken but from what i heard (which i dont know) is that Sufis deny basic things in Islam ie day of judgement but i dont know though

and as for the discussion of suicide bombings. well under the teachings of Islam it does fall as forbiden i guess.

but under these circumstamstances whtat is there to do?? the Muslims leaders are corrupt and not politically helping the Palestinians while America is unfarily supporting Israels actions.

these people are desperate and they want to inflict injury back to the people who are occupying them, killing their familes etc. and suicide bombing is their only way.

it may or may not be agaist the teachongs of Islam and people can debate that but the people are still just as desperate so i dont think they will do it regardless and use Islam as their motivation.

 

[Leo Volont]

Islam is my way of life. Islam is the way of life of every human being who is aware of the truth about life and himself. But I am afraid many like you are still confusing Islam with peoples' Muslimism.

Sufi is a name given by Muslims to those who had a deep spiritual understanding of Islam, who devote their lives to experience the truth that Mohammed and other Rasuls (pbuh) explained to mankind as informed in the Koran.

All muslims including Mullahs and all thinking people who are aware of truth have and have always had sympathy for those spiritual masters, in history and to date, they love them, respect them and share with them..

Sufism predates Islam.

And Islam has persecuted Sufism almost out of existence.

And doesn't the word "Sufi" refer to the Holy Robes worn by a "Sufi".

Why do you suppose that Sufis always seemed to rush out from the center of Islamic Civilization to the very edges, if not to get away from Islamic persecution and control. Sufis thrived in Spain and adapted well to Mary Worship. And they rushed into India where they adapted well to Polytheism and became known as Fakirs.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Sufism predates Islam.

And Islam has persecuted Sufism almost out of existence.

And doesn't the word "Sufi" refer to the Holy Robes worn by a "Sufi".

Why do you suppose that Sufis always seemed to rush out from the center of Islamic Civilization to the very edges, if not to get away from Islamic persecution and control. Sufis thrived in Spain and adapted well to Mary Worship. And they rushed into India where they adapted well to Polytheism and became known as Fakirs.

I don't know whether this has anything to do with reality, but can you expand on it? With sources pls.

:m:

 

[Leo Volont]

I don't know whether this has anything to do with reality, but can you expand on it? With sources pls.

:m:

1. Awakening: A Sufi Experience
Pir Vilayat Inayat-Khan, Vilayat Inayat Khan, Pythia Peay

2. The Sufis
Idries Shah

Also, consider that I am an old well-read and traveled man. Somethings, at this point in life, I just know.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

1. Awakening: A Sufi Experience
Pir Vilayat Inayat-Khan, Vilayat Inayat Khan, Pythia Peay

2. The Sufis
Idries Shah

Thank you.

Also, consider that I am an old well-read and traveled man. Somethings, at this point in life, I just know.

I grant you that. Alas I cannot but insist on learning myself. I cannot take your word for granted. Also permit me, with all respect, to say that one knows as long as he knows he doesn't really know. When he is convinced he knows he is being ignorant.

Can you expand on your earlier post? tell us more about how you think the sufi came about (before the Prophet Muhammed -peace be upon him)

:m:

 

[duendy]

(((SUFI...?)))): what do you think of homosexuals, lesbians, transexuals, transvestites....?...do you and Sufism accept them--which would include me as i am Queer. and i don't mean 'accept' as is with the Christian orthodox church, which will only accept homosexuals If they don't actuall practice homosexual sex.

so i am aksing you in this regard?

 

[Leo Volont]

... with all respect, to say that one knows as long as he knows he doesn't really know. When he is convinced he knows he is being ignorant.

That is what the stupid Lao Tzu crowd, a bunch of stupid and backward farmers, used to chant against the City Slicker Confusians. It is what the Faith crowd, also morons, would chant against the University Scholars.

It is what idiots chant against smart people.

If you are an idiot, I can see taking up an idiot's defense. But while you have a hint of God Given Intelligence you should NEVER glorify Stupidity.

 

[Leo Volont]

(((SUFI...?)))): what do you think of homosexuals, lesbians, transexuals, transvestites....?...do you and Sufism accept them--which would include me as i am Queer. and i don't mean 'accept' as is with the Christian orthodox church, which will only accept homosexuals If they don't actuall practice homosexual sex.

so i am aksing you in this regard?

Are you kidding? You know what they call the Sufis, don't you? "Whirling Dervishes". They whirl and twirl.

I'll tell you ... it would probably be very difficult for people who 'whirl and twirl' to come up with any persuasive argument against Gay People. It would be like anticipating homophobic bigotry from the Tony Awards.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

You have said before that you were of age and I am fasting now. Reasons for me not to reply in kind.

I asked you for clarification, you may choose to supply it or not, at this point I have ceased to care.

Permit me to say also, that I view it as a failing that you resorted to such a language concidering you are quite old (I guess) and that you claim wisdom. I do not know, however, if that is worse or the fact that you claim wisdom, that you claim to know, whithout any hint of humility.

:m:

 

[duendy]

((Leo Volont)))..i wasn't asking you. I am expecting an intelligent, RESPECTFUL reply

 

[Sufi]

(((SUFI...?)))): what do you think of homosexuals, lesbians, transexuals, transvestites....?...do you and Sufism accept them--which would include me as i am Queer. and i don't mean 'accept' as is with the Christian orthodox church, which will only accept homosexuals If they don't actuall practice homosexual sex.

so i am aksing you in this regard?

All individuals, no matter how we name them, are the servants of Allah, that is each person serves only the reason for which s/he was created.

Yet, much as this is the reality, one can realize this reality only as far as one knows what is referred to as Allah and understands the sytem of life that Allah creates as the originator. This means that "man shall have nothing save only that for which he made effort" (the Koran).

Therefore, being a servant of Allah by creation does not mean that one will not be responded by the reward of one's MISDEEDS no matter what. The system works for everyone of us. As far as one oppresses his own soul (which is failing to realize what is referred to as Allah and to understand the sytem of life because of assuming himself a mere physical body and imprisoning one's mind into the cocoon of physical desires), one will have to suffer the results of one's unawareness and heedlessness, for ever.

Every soul will look to what he has sent forth for the morrow. (the Koran)

(I hope this may help.)

 

[duendy]

((SUFI)))...a bit evasive. but what is IMPLIED is very open to authoritarian interpretational dogma, ie.,

"servants of "Allah";
"imprisoned in one's physical desires"

I dont wnat to be a servant of ANYone or ANY ideal

I do not believe i am imprisoned

And, i have previously been privy to knowledge of Sufi sects being anti-homosexual, etc

I am sure Sufism is a derivative of the Upanishad's belief in a "One" and a "Many", where the former is deified and the latter demonized, and/or dismissed--as with th belief of 'Maya/Illusion". thus followers of these beliefs can posit what is EXPECTED of 'Oneness' or Allah' or "God" etc. From there happens the persecution of people who don't fit the criteria of the accepted dogma