Why Sufis are considered deviated by some!

Sufi

Registered Senior Member
Because...

It is our, the Sufis', wish that people may take their approach toward the “Religion of Islam” and evaluate it by love, not hatred; by knowledge and comprehending the truth and wisdom in it, not with ignorance or imitation (taqlid)... Therefore, we are considered deviated by some.

It is our hope that mosques may be freed from being frightening places of scholastic, illogical, unreasonable, nonsense talks; and rather become meeting spots for people of tolerance to come together to share knowledge and wisdom. By gathering like a “ball of love” in those places we hope they may share the worry of their neighbors and fellow friends and also become happy with their happinesses. Temples should indeed be places where people find peace with the prayers, Zhikr, meditation and deep thought about ALLAH.

Let such places be equipped with computers and bookcases rather than being decorated with showy carpets and chandeliers...

Let the mosques be centers that are modest, plain, unimposing, but that they may open new horizons for people and provide them with useful information. So, the “Religion of Islam” is made easy to understand and to practice rightfully through the effect of true realization (tahqiq) far from adaptive imitation (taqlid).

Those holy places should not be used for political or economic interests. Therefore, we may be considered deviated by some!..

It is our wish that people's good intentions should not be traded on and their money should not be captured in various ways by convincing that “sins of their deceased relatives will be forgiven” in return. People should not be fooled by imposing some persons as religious mentors!!! who act as authorizations to rule people's practices and sell advice for the sake of money paid to them; but who immediately disappear when their subsistence is cut off.

Neither Ahmed Yasawi nor Jelaluddin Rumi, nor RasulAllah aleyhessalaam who shed light on understanding Islam, have ever accepted any material gain in return for their services for the “Religion of Islam” to be understood. On the contrary, they have spent all their wealth on their path and past away with nothing. Most of their follower Sufis have become generous distributors rather than collectors in the name of “Religion”. Therefore, Sufis may be considered as deviated by some.

The “Religion of Islam” has been communicated and reached out to our day in almost every community with an approach full of love and enlightenment(irfan) given out by the spiritual people of loving heart known as Sufi saints.

Mosques, on the other hand, to say regretfully, are full of those who make every effort to exile people of sympathy that were gained through loving and enlightening approach of spiritual people of loving heart known as Sufis.

For further, read this book for free --Up To Date Understanding Of Islam
 
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I wish you the best of luck sufi. It sounds like a wonderful vision you have. From what I have learned of your view of islam it seems to be a very beautiful faith. As to those who denounce your belief the loudest it is more a comment on their own insecurity in their beliefs than on any shortcomings in your own. :m:
 
Sufi said:
Because...

It is our, the Sufis', wish that people may take their approach toward the “Religion of Islam” and evaluate it by love, not hatred; by knowledge and comprehending the truth and wisdom in it, not with ignorance or imitation (taqlid)... Therefore, we are considered deviated by some.

spiritual people of loving heart known as Sufis.
Question do sufi's blow people up(suicide bombers) in the name of allah (who does not like them using is name in such a way)
 
As the vogon said to Arthur - so you think that my poetry means deep down that I simply want to be loved? That was just before Arthur was thrown out of the airlock into the emptiness of space.

If you remove all the unecessary spiritual references from sufism then what you have is standard healthy humanism. Sounds good to me.

Kat
 
Katazia said:
As the vogon said to Arthur - so you think that my poetry means deep down that I simply want to be loved? That was just before Arthur was thrown out of the airlock into the emptiness of space.

If you remove all the unecessary spiritual references from sufism then what you have is standard healthy humanism. Sounds good to me.

Kat

Agreed.........
 
the preacher said:
Question do sufi's blow people up(suicide bombers) in the name of allah (who does not like them using is name in such a way)

Preacher sufiism is not what you think of when you think of islam he has said that they believe there is no god called allah but instead allah is everything similar to a single superorganic (my understanding). Hence there is no difference between us or between faiths, no need to fight the infidels because there are no infidels.
 
the preacher said:
Question do sufi's blow people up(suicide bombers) in the name of allah (who does not like them using is name in such a way)

Suicide has been regarded as an indication of disbelief and banned by Mohammed aleyhessalaam. No one is allowed to take a life of any soul including the person himself.

I hope somebody who has hadith books like Bukhari in his computer, will list here at least some of the hadithes of RasulAllah Muhammed (pbuh), and reveal how the prophet announced that anyone commiting suicide is a disbeliever and will suffer torment in the afterlife forever.

For a detailed information about how Islam views death, you may read the chapter INNER FACE OF DEATH from the book --Mohammed's Allah for free.
 
path said:
they believe there is no god called allah but instead allah is everything similar to a single superorganic (my understanding). Hence there is no difference between us or between faiths, no need to fight the infidels because there are no infidels.

might possibly call the intelligent System that rules the universe from within and that we all are subjected to as 'single superorganic', which is what we perceive from our perspective, of the meanings (or qualities) of the One referred to as Allah, the Originator of all.

Everyone in this intelligent system will receive the return of his deeds forever. We will receive the result of our own faiths and deeds. As you sow so you reap. You will see only when you believe. It is the system that constantly operates. Infidel will be requited of his own deeds and will forever suffer the result of remaining blind to what he did not believe, --without the interference of a god out there or of any other external power.

For a better understanding please spare some of your time to read the book I've mentioned above.
 
Katazia said:
If you remove all the unecessary spiritual references from sufism then what you have is standard healthy humanism. Sounds good to me.

rather maybe HUman-ism.

(Note: The personal pronoun “He” cannot be used in reference to “ALLAH,” because “ALLAH” is not a separate entity, though it is used in English to denote “God.”
The word "HU" as the pronoun originally used to denote “ALLAH” in the Koran, denotes a "dimensional-beyond" in a sense without quantity and quality and refers to the “essence within,” and therefore does not imply a separate third being.)
 
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Sufi,

rather maybe HUman-ism.
Well no. The term is HUMAN as in human being. A species that has developed self awareness and whose survival and happiness is not dependent on mystical entities of the imagination such as allahs and the like.

(Note: The personal pronoun “He” cannot be used in reference to “ALLAH,” because “ALLAH” is not a separate entity, though it is used in English to denote “God.”
Agreed which makes the only appropriate term ”IT”.

Kat
 
candy said:
It is sad that the Sufi Sect is a minority in Islam.
Live long and prosper sufi.

Thanks.

If I may add just to avoid some possible misunderstandings...

Rater than being a sect or minority that differs from the rest, it is all about the depth of understanding.

Sufism is a name given to the only 'deep spiritual understanding of Islam' and almost every Muslim knows that one will came accross with it when s/he dwells on the teachings of Mohammed (pbuh) and the Koran, as it is right beneath the surface values of religion.

Throughout history, Sufi masters have all been known as 'awliyah' (meaning 'those that whose friend is Allah') --Muslim saints-- in all communities.
 
Katazia said:
... mystical entities of the imagination such as allahs and the like.

To me, labelling mystical entities or imaginations as Allah is a prejudice and where the problem starts about the religion.

'Allah' is often taken as what it 'could be' and finally an image of god is labelled so. Therefore, I stress on the fact that 'Allah is not a god as there is not a god. The god in peoples' mind is a misunderstanding resulting from taking metaphors and parables in holy scriptures as realities'.

When we learn and understand what is denoted by the noun Allah, we can no more label any version of mystical entity, imagination, or god we already know of, as 'Allah'.

I wish, rather than depending on hearsay or taking it as one of what you called 'the like', you could spare some of your time, read and learn what is referred to as Allah, clearly. And as you do not bear an imagination, I think you would agree on it :)
 
If you remove all the unecessary spiritual references from sufism then what you have is standard healthy humanism. Sounds good to me.
but adding the afterlife gives it that extra "umph" and "whoa factor" to make people take stuff seriously. the prospect of eternal torment really adds gravity, no? :D
 
I guess this is supposed to explain why I question you. You make seem like people are persecuting you. He that questions you is filled with hate??? and you have a monopoly on love?? You know and he that uses arguments to question you is ignorant.. :rolleyes:

Sufi said:
Because...

It is our, the Sufis', wish that people may take their approach toward the “Religion of Islam” and evaluate it by love, not hatred; by knowledge and comprehending the truth and wisdom in it, not with ignorance or imitation (taqlid)... Therefore, we are considered deviated by some.

Funny thing here. You are saying the same as the Wahabi. In this regard it is particularly interesting how both of you reject taqlid.

Sufi said:
It is our hope that mosques may be freed from being frightening places of scholastic, illogical, unreasonable, nonsense talks;

That is quite a serious allegation wouldn't you say? Since when are Mosques frightening??

Sufi said:
and rather become meeting spots for people of tolerance to come together to share knowledge and wisdom. By gathering like a “ball of love” in those places we hope they may share the worry of their neighbors and fellow friends and also become happy with their happinesses. Temples should indeed be places where people find peace with the prayers, Zhikr, meditation and deep thought about ALLAH.

It may come as a surprise to you but they are already. I haven't seen a place where people smile more.

Sufi said:
Let such places be equipped with computers and bookcases rather than being decorated with showy carpets and chandlers...

Chandlers??? do you ever go to the mosque? I know many mosques that have their own internet servers and produce video games for kids. Every mediumsized mosque I visited this six months has its own library. I guess it is not the same around the world, not all mosques have the means.

Sufi said:
Let the mosques be centers that are modest, plain, unimposing, but that they may open new horizons for people and provide them with useful information.

They are doing just that.

Sufi said:
So, the “Religion of Islam” is made easy to understand and to practice rightfully through the effect of true realization (tahqiq) far from adaptive imitation (taqlid).

You mean your muslimism. And what is wrong with imitating the prophet -peace be upon him? tell me!

Sufi said:
Those holy places should not be used for political or economic interests. Therefore, we may be considered deviated by some!..

So Abu bakr, Omar, Uthman and Ali -may Allah reward them all- would concider you deviated then. They ruled the community from the mosque. Who should we follow them or Ahmed baki and you?

Sufi said:
It is our wish that people's good intentions should not be traded on and their money should not be captured in various ways by convincing that “sins of their deceased relatives will be forgiven” in return. People should not be fooled by imposing some persons as religious mentors!!! who act as authorizations to rule people's practices and sell advice for the sake of money paid to them; but who immediately disappear when their subsistence is cut off.

What are you talking about? Are you sure those are mosques you are visiting? What learned man would say he can forgive? What Muslim?

Sufi said:
Neither Ahmed Yasawi nor Jelaluddin Rumi, nor RasulAllah aleyhessalaam who shed light on understanding Islam, have ever accepted any material gain in return for their services for the “Religion of Islam” to be understood. On the contrary, they have spent all their wealth on their path and past away with nothing.

True, at least as far as our prophet -peace be upon him- is concerned.

Sufi said:
Most of their follower Sufis have become generous distributors rather than collectors in the name of “Religion”. Therefore, Sufis may be considered as deviated by some.

That is then to their credit. But why lie about other people? Why say that the rest uses mosques to benefit themselves. Doesn't the big electron forbid you to lie?

Now listen Sufi, I am writing this because you are claiming to have the "True Islam" and it is your right to claim it. But If you claim it, it has to be able to withstand the test of the Qur'an. Because if it doesn't then you are making things up. And Allah doesn't like people to lie about him.

What bothers me is that you are abusing the Qur'an for legitimacy. If you were not doing that, I wouldn't care about what you do. But you are.

Now You haven't answered me about the arabic part concerning "Ahad". It is clear then that you do not understand Arabic and thus rely on the baki fellow. My advice to you, learn arabic, I will help you in your quest for knowledge.

Also in "Can you list here ancient Sufis you know of?"that is http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?p=631131#post631131. There you say:" Who has not been inspired by the words of Mansur al-Hallaj and who does not love him other than the blind?". This man said "I am god" according to everneo in the same thred. That I means I was right in" http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?p=631137#post631137" when I said you people say "that everything" is God. So tell me why can this man say "I am god" and the christians can't? Certainly the Messiah -peace be upon him- is better than this hallaj. Why is he God and not Jesus -peace be upon him?

You say we are doing what we are supposed to do by existing. That means I can commit genocide and still be in the "wholeness" (or how carlin calls it, the big electron) and still be good. And why should I pray if I am already serving Allah by existing? Why did He command us to pray and fast and give in charity? Why did He command us to do good? Would He command us in vain?

Do the ones that believe in the afterlife equal the ones that do not for Allah?

Hud 11:

(18) Who doth more wrong than those who invent a lie against Allah? They will be turned back to the presence of their Lord, and the witnesses will say, "These are the ones who lied against their Lord! Behold! the Curse of Allah is on those who do wrong!- (19) "Those who would hinder (men) from the path of Allah and would seek in it something crooked: these were they who denied the Hereafter!" (20) They will in no wise frustrate (His design) on earth, nor have they protectors besides Allah! Their penalty will be doubled! They lost the power to hear, and they did not see! (21) They are the ones who have lost their own souls: and the (fancies) they invented have left them in the lurch! (22) Without a doubt, these are the very ones who will lose most in the Hereafter!(23) But those who believe and work righteousness, and humble themselves before their Lord,- They will be companions of the gardens, to dwell therein for aye! (24)These two kinds (of men) may be compared to the blind and deaf, and those who can see and hear well. Are they equal when compared? Will ye not then take heed?

Truth​

There is certainly more, but let this suffice. You are regarded as deviated because you are. Because you changed the teachings of the Prophets- peace be upon him.

You may opt not to reply, but that would be an answer too.

:m:
 
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Bruce,

You should not seek occasions to attack on every word I write. Give yourself time and talk to your elderly over and over again before throwing accusations on others without knowing!

Instead, you can do better things and for instance, you can help people correct their misunderstandings about Islam by replying to one of my above posts and paste here in this thread some of the hadithes of RasulAllah about comitting suicide, and show people how Muslims can be ignorant about the teachings of RasulAllah and can act against them.
 
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Sufi said:
You should not seek occasions to attack on every word I write.

I am not attacking you, I am reasoning with you.

Sufi said:
Give yourself time and talk to your elderly over and over again before throwing accusations on others without knowing!

lol, "my elderly" :p. I am not throwing accusations without knowing. I am posing concrete and legitimate questions, backed up with strong arguments. You can't answer them,(probably because you rely too much on your elderly.)

Sufi said:
Instead, you can do better things and for instance, you can help people correct their misunderstandings about Islam by replying to one of my above posts and paste here in this thread some of the hadithes of RasulAllah about comitting suicide, and show people how Muslims can be ignorant about the teachings of RasulAllah and can act against them.

Am already woking on that. But I also like to help you. I also don't like people abusing the Qur'an.

Again, I have asked quite valid questions and you have answered none of them. Is it that you do not like the questions or is it that you do not like answers?
 
Bruce Wayne said:
Originally Posted by Sufi
Instead, you can do better things and for instance, you can help people correct their misunderstandings about Islam by replying to one of my above posts and paste here in this thread some of the hadithes of RasulAllah about comitting suicide, and show people how Muslims can be ignorant about the teachings of RasulAllah and can act against them.
Am already woking on that.

Looking forward to seeing the hadithes about commiting suicide in this thread soon.

I believe you can discuss matters by acting better. Just think that Islam does not in need of anyone's protection or defense. It is enough to defend itself.

The problem is if we can understand it truly and evaluate it in order to defend ourselves against the dangers it informs us. Therefore we should be open to every idea and avoid from fighting behavior that brings nothing other than loss and regret in the end.
 
Sufi,

To me, labelling mystical entities or imaginations as Allah is a prejudice and where the problem starts about the religion.
Allah is a noun as you have said, it is therefore a thing, an entity of some unknown type. But it cannot be recognized as anything that maps to a reality and hence it exists but only in your imagination.

'Allah' is often taken as what it 'could be' and finally an image of god is labelled so.
So you keep saying, but I didn’t say that – it seems I have correctly recognized this thing of yours as an IT.

Therefore, I stress on the fact that 'Allah is not a god as there is not a god.
Quite right, there are no such things as gods. A very good atheist posture.

The god in peoples' mind is a misunderstanding resulting from taking metaphors and parables in holy scriptures as realities'.
Riiight. They are just fictional imaginary objects, but then your IT is also a fictional imaginary object – there is no real practical difference.

When we learn and understand what is denoted by the noun Allah, we can no more label any version of mystical entity, imagination, or god we already know of, as 'Allah'.
Ah ha I see what you mean. If it is not imaginary and it isn’t real then it must be nothing at all. Just like things that do not exist. Excellent – you are a fine atheist.

I wish, rather than depending on hearsay or taking it as one of what you called 'the like', you could spare some of your time, read and learn what is referred to as Allah, clearly. And as you do not bear an imagination, I think you would agree on it
Well that’s nice but I think you have made it quite clear that this Allah something doesn’t exist.

Kat
 
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