Why religions still exist?

Re: Re: The addiction of religion

Originally posted by Redoubtable
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By that I hope you mean "crucify and eat the whole lot of them".
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(Well, I don't have much of an appetite for them to tell you the truth. But I imagine I feel like the Romans did when they fed them to the lions. I admit my impatience of their ignorance.)
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That's right, and it's high time we had a drastic reversal of roles.
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(You know, with all the available information on the Internet, and the convenience of not having to travel to a library or bookstore, you'd think they would be able to read the truthful history of their religions and base their judgments on the truth, but they do not!)
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On a less heinous though equally truculent note, I think religious people are, by and large, fearful, tremulous, ignorant cattle, which aren't going anywhere anytime soon. They're too hebetudinous to find answers for themselves, so they wallow in self-pity and dellusion, assuming that this cosmic "buddy" of theirs will sympathize with'em and invite 'em over to his big, friggin' house-boat on the celestial bayou o' Nod.
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(Yeah, and they could get off the boat and dance on the water, eh?)
 
M*W,

Thr trouble is most everyday religionists aren't anything like that.
 
Originally posted by Futurist

if religions are all craps,
why they still exist and influence the world (like how Vatican influences politics) ?
:)
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Religions arew not all crap. How can you proclaim they are crap. In fact there are so many religions which allow change and allow people to be themselves.

Religion is a belief system Everyone relies on a set of beliefs. REligion in some cases is that. It helps people when they are at there weakest points, as well as their strong points..

Religion is what based the world, and is the reason for human existance in the way it is today. The western way of thought is based on Plato's philosophy and only spread by the spread of Christianity. This later spread across the world by colonies. It shapes the world and the modern way of thought. You can't change something that took 2000 years to build.

Religion influences politics because of the people believing it. If people still belief in Catholicism, they will believe in the Pope, and so the Pope has influence in politics. Remember politics is the voice of the people.
 
Philo,

Religions arew not all crap. How can you proclaim they are crap. In fact there are so many religions which allow change and allow people to be themselves.
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This would be fine if we knew if religions contained some truth. But no one knows that. How does believing something that may not be true allow people to be themselves? You seem to be implying that people can only be themselves if they believe something is true whether true or false.

Religion is a belief system.
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Agreed.

Everyone relies on a set of beliefs.
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Do they? Belief can be based on many things. Is there value in believing that leprechauns actually exist and that any good fortune or bad luck you experience in your life is due to the overwhelming influence of leprechauns? This is a belief system. If this good because it is a belief system?

I would assert that it is never necessary to absolutely believe something is true without an adequate basis in truth. The controversial aspect of religions is that no one can show/prove any real truth to underlying religious claims.

One doesn’t need to believe something is true to be themselves or to pursue certain paths in life. The hope that something might be true or the speculation that future events will change to be more fortuitous, are all valid perspectives, none of which require a conviction to a believed truth.

REligion in some cases is that. It helps people when they are at there weakest points, as well as their strong points.
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Does it? Does the cause justify the means? Convincing someone they will find paradise when they die, seems to me to be irresponsible. The effect will be short term but the phrase “what tangled webs we weave when we practice to deceive” always seems to be very true and in the long term deception leads to disaster.

Religion is what based the world, and is the reason for human existance in the way it is today.
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That can be disputed. I suspect humans would have found another idea had religious concepts not surfaced. Humans are very adaptable.

But what about now? While religions have played a large role in the past can we not now dispense with them and base our life values on things more substantial?
 
i think one of the main reasons religion has lasted so long is becuase it just sounds so damn good.
when you take away the technicalities from each religion your left with the same thing. Be nice, play nice, good things wil happen. And for the most part its true. However, everyone has different idea of what would make the world nice and perfect, so different religions pay close attention to different specific details. And in the end loose sight of the "make things good" aspect becuase they are trying so hard to make everything their way, and serve this seperate god.
thats why we have the mess that exists now. Instead of focusing on the goal at hand, everyone is too busy trying to get a step ahead into heaven etc.
 
This would be fine if we knew if religions contained some truth.
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"If God is love, then religion is just as true as love."

Interesting, you get the same kind of debate when you ask the question "does love exist?"...
 
It has survived because it is so damned ingenious.

(Not ALL religions, of course. It would not only be impossible to address the longevity of ALL religions by a simple blanket statement, it would be silly. But as a general rule...)

Religion survives partly because it takes people's deepest darkest fears and insecurities and preys on them.

What is it that drives people to build structures, write books, create songs, create political ideologies, name cities after themselves, explore, strive for fame, procreate, or do anything that will bear their name and (hopefully) outlive them?

It is the knowledge of our own mortality and relative insignificance.
It is a feeble bid for immortality (of sorts) because we know that we will die someday.
Maybe it is an extension of the innate survival instinct, I don't know.

Religion takes this driving fear of not existing after we die and offers a pretty alternative.
It tells us, "You can avoid mortality if you want to. However, the only way to do that, is play by our rules. You can't do it without me."
In this way, it ensures it's OWN survival and immortality.

In some cases this deception seems to be purposeful and intended (Christianty, for example).
In some cases it seems to be borne of the fears and insecurities of the person (people) that originally came up with the concept.
A way to assuage their own fears.

I have also read that quote as "Opiate of the masses", and nothing could be more true.

Half of the religious people I have spoken to (online or in real life) fully admit this.
They only subscribe to their particular religion out of fear.
Fear of not knowing what comes next.
Fear of what will happen if they are wrong (Don't believe in God and go to Hell).

It is something that helps them sleep at night because if they didn't have this thing to cling to, whether or not it is "true" (they don't even care if it is "true"), they would live in constant fear that they will someday not exist and their life would have been completely meaningless.

Religion offers up rhetoric under the guise of hope...
Oppression under the guise of protection...
Hatred, bigotry and exclusion under the guise of God(s)...
Supression of desires under the guise of objective morality...
Control under the guise of leadership...
Mind control under the guise of hell, nothing at all, people willingly give their minds over to religion because it is easier than thinking for themselves.

Understand and take full advantage of people's fears and you can control their lives.
 
One_Raven,

Nice try. But the only fear that should lead to belief in God is, ironically enough, fear of God. Fear like that is part of acceptance of who God is. But of course you have to believe He exists before you can have that.

Think about it. How bad is mortality and death really? Compared to the circumstances most people live in developing countries (and judging by the rate of suicides in developed countries) death and obscurity isn't really scary enough to make religion a worthwhile escape mechanism. I don't think anybody who believes because he fears anything in this life is doing himself a favour. If God exists, He might just rouse you from your blissful sleep and hold you accountable for what you did while you were alive. There is really no other reason to have faith, than belief in God.


There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love. (1 John 4:18)
 
But the only fear that should lead to belief in God is, ironically enough, fear of God. Fear like that is part of acceptance of who God is.
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Because he is a bully- Only a bully would want to throw his weight around by making eternal threats

Jenyar, I know you believe that the lake of fire is only for Satan and his demons, but there are many others who don't believe that way. I live in the "bible belt" of the United States...and can tell you that your thinking about hell/lake of fire is that of a minority thinking. Everything I have read in the bible leads me to believe that Lake of Fire was also intended for those who aren't "saved". We have had this discussion before so there isn't any need to drive it into the ground any further.

Point being is that many others preach about this Lake of Fire and use it as a tool to get people to turn from their "wicked" ways and give their heart to God. If they don't ...they will be punished in hell for all eternity..where there will be weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth...where they will remember every single person who tried to witness Jesus to them, the regret that they didn't listen and instead gave into the flesh. They will burn but not be consumed by the fire.. where the worm dieth not...and so on and so on and so on...I've heard too many sermons by various preachers. Yes, there are many that run to that alter because they are scared to death because they don't want to go to hell.

Below is a quote and link about hell, this is simply one of tons of examples of why people run to the alter because of fear.

"The Bible teaches us a lot of things about Hell. In fact, Jesus, for every sermon He preached on Heaven, He preached two on Hell. Jesus preached a lot about Hell. He preached on Hell more than any other character in the Bible. And the Bible tells us a lot about Hell."

http://www.momof9splace.com/hell.html
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Originally posted by Futurist


just to ask all of you,

if religions are all craps,
why they still exist and influence the world (like how Vatican influences politics) ?


 :)
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Cultural momentum.
 
Originally posted by Jenyar

There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love. (1 John 4:18)
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Are you sure Jenyar? You accused MW in another post for selecting quotes out of the bible. I have found over 100 references to the fear of god in OT and NT. Do you now fear god Jenyar, or do you think that our god is an easy god to be taken for granted?

Deut.10
[12] And now, Israel, what doth the LORD thy God require of thee, but to fear the LORD thy God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the LORD thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul,
[20] Thou shalt fear the LORD thy God; him shalt thou serve, and to him shalt thou cleave, and swear by his name.
Deut.13
[4] Ye shall walk after the LORD your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him.

The bible says that god is a fearful god
2Mac.1
[24] And the prayer was after this manner; O Lord, Lord God, Creator of all things, who art fearful and strong, and righteous, and merciful, and the only and gracious King,

Bad people in the bible didn't fear god
Luke.18
[2] Saying, There was in a city a judge, which feared not God, neither regarded man:


A devout just man in the NT is said to fear god.
Acts.10
[2] A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.
[22] And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God by an holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee.


Holiness in the bible is described as fear of god
2Cor.7
[1] Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

Submission to god stems from fear of god according to bible NT
Eph.5
[21] Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.

Col.3
[22] Servants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God:

Heb.12
[28] Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:
Rev.14
[7] Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
 
To heart,

It is God who saves us from the Lake of Fire. What else is He saving us from? Definitely not from people. Jesus is the instrument of salvation - the arm of God, representing the justice and mercy of God. It is not God who condemns you to hell (sheol - the grave), it is our nature to die, and unforgiven sins chain us to death. When Jesus returns, death and hell will be thrown into the pool of fire, including those in them. It's highly metaphorical language, but it's clearly not where anybody could want to be.

To Flores,

Yes, I fear God. But it is not a fear that expects punishment. To fear God means to put Him first in everything you do. Someone who doesn't believe in God is said to "have no fear of God". I do not deny that you have to fear God.

But if you fear God, there is no fear left for anything else. People can only kill your mortal body, but if God does not save you, you may end up in the pool of fire, which is much worse.
 
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