Why not just execute people who receive life without parole?

[Norsefire]

Norsefire:



The death penalty is more expensive to administer than life imprisonment. The death penalty costs more in terms of legal appeals etc. The death penalty is not an effective deterrent. The death penalty involves society descending to the level of the criminal. Revenge should not take precedence as the sole reason for punishment. The death penalty sends the message that "killing is ok". Enlightened nations agree that the death penalty is barbaric. Juries and judges may be reluctant to convict if they know it will result in the death of the offender. The death penalty multiplies suffering (e.g. for the offender's family), adding to the net evil of the crime. Innocent and mentally ill people may be put to death unfairly. The death penalty can create undue sympathy for the offender. The death penalty cannot undo the crime.

More expensive in terms of legal costs. I could say that the death penalty is less expensive in terms of resources. Dead prisoners don't need food and water.

Prison is not an effective deterrent

How does the death penalty involve society descending to the level of the criminal? It's punishment. Does that mean prison involves society descending to the level of the criminal?

Again, I already proved that prison is also barbaric. Death is death, I don't understand how there is anything barbaric about the inevitable. It is a punishment for the ultimate crime.

The offender's family? They are innocent and not hurt in any way. They should not care what happens to scum. I wouldn't.

Innocent and mentally ill people can also be imprisoned. Sympathy for the offender? I'm arguing against sympathy for the offender, you're arguing for it.

Prison cannot undo the crime

The death penalty is about ensuring the criminal pay for his crimes.

Prior to prisons, the death penalty was used all the time. For less serious offences, corporal punishment was the most usual punishment. i.e. other barbarities like public flogging or torture.

And prisons are one more barbarity. It's imprisonment.

Prisoners are people just like you.

Except, unlike them, I am not a murderer or child rapist, and I'm not evil.

 

[James R]

Norsefire:

More expensive in terms of legal costs. I could say that the death penalty is less expensive in terms of resources. Dead prisoners don't need food and water.

The argument is about the overall cost to the society. In that case, life imprisonment turns out to be significantly cheaper.

Prison is not an effective deterrent

The question is: which is a more effective deterrent? The only way to answer that is actual data, which is very hard to come by.

How does the death penalty involve society descending to the level of the criminal? It's punishment. Does that mean prison involves society descending to the level of the criminal?

One of the aims of prison is to rehabilitate the criminal and make him or her fit to live in normal society again. The death penalty has no such aim; it is pure revenge killing.

Again, I already proved that prison is also barbaric. Death is death, I don't understand how there is anything barbaric about the inevitable.

Suppose you are 30 years old. You're given a choice: you die at 80, or we execute you now. Which do you choose? According to your argument, it makes no difference, since you're going to die sooner or later anyway. So, may as well just throw yourself under a bus today. Right?

The offender's family? They are innocent and not hurt in any way. They should not care what happens to scum. I wouldn't.

Do you care about your family members, or are they just "scum"?

The death penalty is about ensuring the criminal pay for his crimes.

Yes, it's all about basic revenge - a low motive indeed.

And prisons are one more barbarity. It's imprisonment.

Most people agree that prison is superior to corporal punishment.

Prisoners are people just like you.

Except, unlike them, I am not a murderer or child rapist, and I'm not evil.

"Evil" is just a way to regard some people as "other". It's easy, but silly. Maybe when you grow up a bit, you'll understand.

 

[Cybernetics]

James R:
overall cost to society i would asume you speak of moral cost in which case i atleast do not sugest executions are griim and gory seens of sloughter.

Prison v Death is unresolvable but death i belive has a stigma which is more of a deterant

Note the name of the thread "Why not just execute people who receive life without parole?" rehabilitation is imposible becasues they will never get out.

for offenders family i belive it is worse having to visit in prison and to have the realtive their.

the prisoners have forfited their rights when they comited their high level crimes, there not exactly the same as us

lastly by inprisoning we are commiting large scale kidnap just like by execution we are commiting murder.

 

[Enmos]

Prison v Death is unresolvable but death i belive has a stigma which is more of a deterant

Then why does the US have such a high crime rate compared to countries that don't have capital punishment ?

 

[codanblad]

"What do you think is the most appropriate execution method?"

Electric chair or firing squad. They are quick and I believe fairly painless, if not totally. I would not go for lethal injection because I hate having needles stuck into me.

you're trolling right? needles hurt more than firing squad? *edit* let the person choose

that aside, someone with life and no parole should have access to assisted suicide. its that or perhaps force them to do it in a much more primitive fashion. you can make counselling a prerequisite of the assistance to see whether they can be helped.

 

[James R]

Cybernetics:

Note the name of the thread "Why not just execute people who receive life without parole?" rehabilitation is imposible becasues they will never get out.

Even if they're in prison, there's still a chance of their rehabilitation. People have a lot of free time in prison to improve themselves if they want to.

the prisoners have forfited their rights when they comited their high level crimes, there not exactly the same as us

All their rights? That's barbaric. Prisoners, as I keep having to inform Norsefire, are people.

lastly by inprisoning we are commiting large scale kidnap just like by execution we are commiting murder.

Wrongful imprisonment can be corrected. Wrongful execution cannot. For that reason alone, there should be no death penalty.

 

[Norsefire]

Norsefire:
The argument is about the overall cost to the society. In that case, life imprisonment turns out to be significantly cheaper.

Yes, in money. Not in resources. Dead criminals don't use food, water, or supplies.
Not to mention prisons are overcrowded, and if we increase use of the death penalty, we might be able to shut down some prisons and maybe turn them into more useful buildings, such as schools, hospitals, churches, homes, etc

The question is: which is a more effective deterrent? The only way to answer that is actual data, which is very hard to come by.

I think both are good deterrants, or have the potential to be, but it's about how sentences are given; for instance, here's my idea for, say, the average crime (non murder)

First offense- no punishment, but they warn the guy and register him
Second offense- (for second offenses for something like rape, then it's the dp); for something like drugs or robbery, we can give them college courses and community service, and tell him if he does it again he will be executed
Third offense- death penalty

That way criminals should be well aware that their actions will not be tolerated.

One of the aims of prison is to rehabilitate the criminal and make him or her fit to live in normal society again. The death penalty has no such aim; it is pure revenge killing.

They won't be rejoining anything if they have life in prison without parole.

Suppose you are 30 years old. You're given a choice: you die at 80, or we execute you now. Which do you choose? According to your argument, it makes no difference, since you're going to die sooner or later anyway. So, may as well just throw yourself under a bus today. Right?

You're ignoring the fundamental point: they'd be imprisoned. If I were 30 and given life in prison, I'd prefer the dp. If I'm an innocent man enjoying life, then what's the point of dying now?

Do you care about your family members, or are they just "scum"?

I care about them, but they aren't criminals. If one of my family members became a child pedophile rapist murderer, to hell with him. I'll cheer on his hanging.

Criminals who commit heinous acts are scum. I won't be biased by them being family.

Yes, it's all about basic revenge - a low motive indeed.

Revenge is fair.

Most people agree that prison is superior to corporal punishment.

Both are barbaric, both are punishments. I don't think it should matter how we punish criminals as long as we do it, and without it being ridiculously out of proportion with the crime.

"Evil" is just a way to regard some people as "other". It's easy, but silly. Maybe when you grow up a bit, you'll understand.

Do you consider Hitler evil? What about BTK?

James R:
overall cost to society i would asume you speak of moral cost in which case i atleast do not sugest executions are griim and gory seens of sloughter.

What moral cost? The death penalty is not immoral, because it is applied as punishment, not as cold blooded murder. Not all killing is the same, it depends on the situation and circumstance.

the prisoners have forfited their rights when they comited their high level crimes, there not exactly the same as us

I agree. If you are going to destroy the rights of others, you will not get rights. That's how society operates. That's why we punish criminals. Murderers, rapists, and the sort forfeit their rates, as well as their humanity.

lastly by inprisoning we are commiting large scale kidnap just like by execution we are commiting murder.

Which is exactly why I believe prison is no less barbaric than the death penalty. If anything, it's more barbaric.

Then why does the US have such a high crime rate compared to countries that don't have capital punishment ?

That has to do with various factors, including immigration, poverty, population, etc

South Africa has a ridiculously high crime rate, but does not have the death penalty; I believe the statistics show that the crime rate increased after they abolished the death penalty. That's why so many South Africans want it re instated.

Cybernetics:
Even if they're in prison, there's still a chance of their rehabilitation. People have a lot of free time in prison to improve themselves if they want to.

The question is, do they deserve rehabilitation? Their victims don't get such a chance.

All their rights? That's barbaric. Prisoners, as I keep having to inform Norsefire, are people.

I wouldn't call BTK human. It seems to me you are trying to defend criminals' rights above victims' rights.

Wrongful imprisonment can be corrected. Wrongful execution cannot. For that reason alone, there should be no death penalty.

There should also not be surgery, construction, and so many other things according to this argument.

Besides, correction is beyond the point. Either you believe any innocent suffering cannot be tolerated, or you agree that sacrifices have to be made.