Why not (insert any fairytale title)?

defending religion makes you look like you're one of the believers
hiding whether you are or not is a weak strategy to shield yourself from criticism.

I am not defending any religion, I am simply speaking what I see as the truth - and supporting it fairly well, I think.
Just because someone says something that is not anti-religion that makes them necessarily religious?
It is that bullshit "us vs them" attitude that keeps any real, mature communication from happening and encourages ignorance - as is plainly evident right now.

I am not defneding religion - I am defending truth.

Are you the type that would sooner lie to further his agenda or held beliefs than acknowldge something as true which stands against it? Sounds a lot like a certain type of theist I know. Tell me, who's the one shielding himself from criticism?


I am hiding nothing.
I have spoken many times at nauseating length what I believe on this forum.
Your ignornce and blind assumptions about who I am or what I do or do not believe are not my fault.
Rather than making assumptions, perhaps you should only stick to what you do know or (perish the thought) actually ASK.
I am the last person who would shield himself from criticism - I actively encourage it and seek it out. A quick galnce at my posts here would confirm that, if you care to bother.
 
How does that apply to Mormonism? I think that's a case of the opposite- a religion invented by a con man for the purposes of manipulating people. Fortunately it has become twisted and perverted into something even nice people can participate in. People do kill in the name of Mormonism, as recently as the 90's. If it weren't for the religion, those people would not have committed murder.

MOST cases. :D
Scientology, for example, is excluded.
 
The Tanakh was written as a history of the Jewish people and was a collection of their laws - not to entertain.
I can offer you hundreds of pieces of history in the Old Testament that are corroborated by secular history and accepted by historians as fact.

Fact is not contagious. That the Tanakh has some facts in it does not mean that it is a factual history or that its conclusions are true.

The Abrahamic myths and Hindu myths are no different than any of the myriad of myths we have already discarded.

We can only hope people will eventually mature past the point of having to insist a particular superstition is true.
 
The world isn't neatly divided between myth and reality, stories and facts. The Middle-Eastern cultures of the Bible used myths and stories in the same way that their European counterparts did. It's a language, a medium of communication. To focus just on the medium (although there is a place for that) is like looking at the finger pointing.

It should be no surprise that you find similarities between modern-day stories and ancient stories - back then there was less stigma against the creative use of language. It was an oral culture after all. A story culture. They packaged everything they knew that way - even history was not written down for pure sake of history - it meant something. You had to find the moral behind events, and that became part of the history. Facts were not just facts, they were also raw material. Our biases against such "unhistorical", "unscientific" methods is quite modern(istic) (and for good reason, but there's the danger of throwing the baby out with the bathwater).

But for the most part, the difference between scientific language and "common" language is artificial. A matter of convenience and clarity. They both use the same dictionary.

Everyone has a narrative in their heads, a story of who they/we are, picked from a storeroom of words and ideas passed on from the past (whether transmitted in writing or by mouth). The worldview from which we interpret reality is woven from threads taken up long before us - from observations, deductions, experiences, wisdom, all woven into stories, partly unravelled again by new observations, deductions, experiences, wisdom and rewoven in new tapestries - beliefs, philosophies, theories, articles, dissertations.

For any of these narratives to make sense to the next generation, they have to be in some logical form: an introduction, a premise, a body, hypothesis/moral, conclusion. Because whatever their message is, they mean to SAY something coherent.

For instance, one modern myth was that people could live clinical, factual lives, their objective minds guided by a superior, rational understanding of the world. It could save humanity from all delusions and superstition, including the tyranny of gods. That, at least, was the dream of the Enlightenment, which turned out to be a scientific fairytale, shattered by new tyrants and two world wars.

One_raven is right. We will do better to try and figure out what stories mean to say, rather than criticise their way of saying it. That requires maturity as well.
 
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