Why Kill the Infidel?

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PsychoticEpisode

It is very dry in here today
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Since I don't have a religious bone in my body I would appreciate the aid of those who do. Could you provide the logic and reason for the answers to some of the following questions:

1. Is it easier to kill an infidel rather than convert?
2. Is there more glory in dispatching an infidel than allowing them to live?
3. Are there different levels of heaven for infidel killers?
4. Does God offer a reward for killing an infidel?
5. Why kill an infidel if they're going to Hell anyway?
6. Are the children of infidels also deserving of being killed?
7. Are your actions justifiable if you kill an infidel?
8. Is killing an infidel worth it?
9. Is martyring yourself while killing infidels the highest honor before God?
10. If the infidel kills you then what?
11. Is love more important to God than killing an infidel?
12. Does forgiving the infidel mean more than killing them?

As I mentioned I don't expect anyone to answer all but if we could touch on a few I'd be indebted.
 
IT ALL BEGAN, when mohammed was kicked out of mecca... and laughed at.

but mohammed was not done... no...

the men of mecca... were pagan bastards... who buoght and sold women like cattle.

mohammed told them to stop it... to love their women... to treat them well.

they threw him out.


he came back... with an army.. and he motivated his army, with the logic of jihad, and its rewards... and as such... his army was unstoppable.
INFIDELS... DONT ACCEPT THE KORAN.. AND HIS ARMY SHOULD KILL THEM.

THATS THE PROBLEM... people take jihad, to mean something they do even in peace time... hence the problem.
it was meant to motivate armies to fight and kill... not for people to kill each other.


he crushed mecca.. and took over... and womens lives were much inproved.

-MT
 
The "infidels" in the Quran:

Read sections 4, 5, 6 and 7

Mohammed himself was not sure what steps he was permitted to take against these people and the verses in the Quran were specifically revealed at these times to help him to make the morally right decision.

http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761553918/Mohammad.html

(this is just an overview for simplicity sake)
 
Mosheh Thezion said:
..
he crushed mecca.. and took over... and womens lives were much inproved.
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I thought that women living under muslim religion are stil very much opressed,such as being forced to wear that ninja like outfit covering their entire body and face,and not having much of a right to speak out etc.etc..
how many rights do those women have today???
 
scorpius said:
I thought that women living under muslim religion are stil very much opressed,such as being forced to wear that ninja like outfit covering their entire body and face,and not having much of a right to speak out etc.etc..
how many rights do those women have today???
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Your assumptions are colored by you imposing your cultural mores on them.

Have you met any of these women to ask them if they feel oppressed; do you think that everyone, deep down inside has American values?

http://www.islamfortoday.com/hijabcanada4.htm
 
Are women not oppressed when they are not encouraged to seek important high ranking jobs and are rarely employed in them even if they go for it? Are they not oppressed when their husbands can divorce them merely by repeating the phrase 'I divorce you' 3 times in public? Are they not oppressed when in the Quran the husband is actually instructed to hit his wife if she misbehaves?
 
tablariddim said:
Are women not oppressed when they are not encouraged to seek important high ranking jobs and are rarely employed in them even if they go for it? Are they not oppressed when their husbands can divorce them merely by repeating the phrase 'I divorce you' 3 times in public? Are they not oppressed when in the Quran the husband is actually instructed to hit his wife if she misbehaves?
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http://www.globaleye.org.uk/secondary_spring03/eyeon/women.html

It all depends on who you think is oppressed.
 
PsychoticEpisode said:
Since I don't have a religious bone in my body I would appreciate the aid of those who do. Could you provide the logic and reason for the answers to some of the following questions:

1. Is it easier to kill an infidel rather than convert?
2. Is there more glory in dispatching an infidel than allowing them to live?
3. Are there different levels of heaven for infidel killers?
4. Does God offer a reward for killing an infidel?
5. Why kill an infidel if they're going to Hell anyway?
6. Are the children of infidels also deserving of being killed?
7. Are your actions justifiable if you kill an infidel?
8. Is killing an infidel worth it?
9. Is martyring yourself while killing infidels the highest honor before God?
10. If the infidel kills you then what?
11. Is love more important to God than killing an infidel?
12. Does forgiving the infidel mean more than killing them?

As I mentioned I don't expect anyone to answer all but if we could touch on a few I'd be indebted.
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Are you really qualified to Judge?
 
well... asking women to where burkas, and so.. prevent men from lusting for them, cannot be worse............ than sexual slavery and bondage in any conditions choosen by the men... which is how it was before mohammed.

you have to realise... there was vast populations of men, all across the land, who had no religion, or practiced varied pagan ways which are much less civilised then islam instills.

islamic law is harsh, but when your dealing with wild violent viscious warrior men of many tribes... you will need a strong hand in ethics.

you must realise.. these multitudes... were not going to become jewish.. or.. follow a jew and his claim to godlyness...

if there is one GOD, then it is that one god pressureing the notions of one god on a pagan world of many endless gods.

this was done...and the only way that would be done, is by a new prophet.

the GOD of mohammed, is the same one GOD, of judaism or christianity....

a conspiracy?? or godly direction? who is to say?



-MT
 
tablariddim said:
Sounds like a fair amount of oppression going on, to me. Have You read the articles?
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Those are human rights issues, but notice the Saudi women themselves do not feel oppressed; they consider themselves rich and lead comfortable lives; it is the people who come to Saudi Arabia to work or with families who feel oppressed, not the Saudi women themseleves; I worked there for more than 4 years and it was hard for me as a foreigner, even though I am a Muslim. But I interacted regularly with the local women and and in 4 years, except for foreigners, I never met a single Saudi woman who considred herself oppressed. Its the culture they are comfortable with, but we are not. Just an example of cultural differences.

I gave a rather extreme example to show that although we think of the women in Islamic countries as oppressed, in reality, they oppress foreigners who come to work for them (hence the human rights issues). So who do you think is really oppressed, the saudi women or the people from other countries who are forced to conform to their culture? And yet, it is rather common to force our cultural values on others, is it not? I too used to think that these women were oppressed too until I lived with them and realised they were just culturally different.

In Isalm, it is not really necessary to wear the hijab; this is a cultural practice adopted by some women which became popular and has persisted. Not all Muslim women wear hijab and women in Islam have had rights for 1400 years which until recently women from other persuasions did not have.
 
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samcdkey said:
In Isalm, it is not really necessary to wear the hijab; this is a cultural practice adopted by some women which became popular and has persisted. Not all Muslim women wear hijab and women in Islam have had rights for 1400 years which until recently women from other persuasions did not have.
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I wouldn't presume to argue with you on this Sam but just want to make 2 observations:

1. Just because someone doesn't 'feel' oppressed doesn't mean they're not oppressed.
2. Just because something is cultural or traditional doesn't mean it's not oppressive.

But now, explode some myths (or confirm the truth of them, as the case may be):

Do women in some Islamic countries walk behind the men?
Do women and children in some Islamic countries eat seperately from the men?
Finally, comments on this article?
 
redarmy11 said:
I wouldn't presume to argue with you on this Sam but just want to make 2 observations:

1. Just because someone doesn't 'feel' oppressed doesn't mean they're not oppressed.
2. Just because something is cultural or traditional doesn't mean it's not oppressive.
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Yes of course I completely agree; but the differences are cultural. Saudi women have full rights to education, they are surgeons, teachers, administrators etc they are funded by the King to study abroad; they own property and have exclusive rights on their own money, they can divorce/remarry, they always gain custody of their children in a divorce (with full maintenance rights). They think Western women are immoral women with no self-respect who reduce their intrinsic value by being available to every man, like a commodity.

I'm not saying I think it is right, but living there for so many years gave me a perspective on what they think.

http://flag.blackened.net/revolt/wsm/ws/2004/80/hijab.html

http://www.aramcoexpats.com/Community/ExPats/ContentID/287/Content.aspx

Do women in some Islamic countries walk behind the men?
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No, unless the men are simply inconsiderate and walk too fast (which also happens in non-Islamic countries);

Do women and children in some Islamic countries eat seperately from the men?
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No; they usually have one large sofra around which the whole family sits and eats

Like this:

http://www.atamanhotel.com/kitchen/sofra.jpg

Finally, comments on this article?

The problem of girl education in India is more to do with lack of education in parents than religion. It is to do with the perception of women as secondary citizens. Inspite of government subsidized education, rural parents do not believe that education is necessary for girls.

http://www.un.org/works/goingon/india/girlseducation.html

http://www.unicef.org/india/girls_education.html

(PS all very interesting but we are going off-topic)
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samcdkey said:
An added note:

After the Taliban came into power in Afghanistan, they imposed their version of Islam on the whole population.

http://www.islamfortoday.com/afghanistanwomen1.htm

In this case, yes the women are surely oppressed.
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Well, I've been searching the internet for confirmation of my prejudices and have to admit that my assumptions are a bit out of date. Did find this from a Karachi-born american:

http://www.rediff.com/news/2004/feb/09inter.htm
Since I am a very loud and aggressive woman and I walk very fast, I am so unlike the women in the NWFP, who always walk behind the men and are silent and things like that. I was always pointed out. But all in all I think I had an incredible experience and I had incredible access that very few people were able to get
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Had to look hard to find it though. Looks like these things are mostly confined to rural areas these days. I'm still not convinced and haven't looked in detail on the education issue yet. It'll have to wait for later - ciao for now.

PS.. yes, I know its off topic but since no-one seems to have directly answered any of the questions yet..
 
the only problem... is that the muslim, accepts and respects the old and new testiment... as mohammed refers to it often...

so, basically... muslims are willing to accept christians and jews as jews and christians....

but in their eyes... the muslim eyes... all they see... are chrisitians and jews who totally refuse and will never yeild to saying the KORAN is a book of the same GOD.

and it is this fundamental refussal to accept it as it is.. a book of GOD, that literally means those chrisitans and jews... are infidels... because they will not accept the koran and islam, in the same way, islamm accepts the bible, jesus, and chrisitans and jews...


the jews and chrisitans argue that the koran is lies.. and pagan moon god stuff.
but the koran makes it clear, it promotes that same oNE GOD, the god of all men.. of all mankind..... the monotheistic concept.

so while islam does not serve the other monotheistic groups, we only need to remember, that they dont matter.. they are all stupid human sinners.

the only opinion that matters is GODs.... and if there is one monotheistic god, then it would please him if man kind accepted that one GOD concept and belief system.

it is beneficial to our species, and mohammed made it happen.

the conflict between islam and the world, will end, when we all accept it as being a work for and of the benefit of that same ONE GOD.

AND THAT IS WHAT MATTERS.

until, we accept each other, there can be only conflict.

this does not mean we agree.. it means we agree not to fight, and only to argue.

it means tolerance... on both sides.

and unfortunately, the western world media, is only to open to discussing the differences... as are the churches and varied jewish and christ based groups.

jews and christians dont need to believe in the koran, but, they must be willing to read it.... and doing so.. the muslim will start to read the bible.

-MT
 
I believe religions come from same source; the spiritual supreme inspired such "prophets" to convey the message of God to all mankind in all places where human live. The environment (hence cultures) where they live then adopted into their practices (so there are differences).
That formed organised religion/religious society. In that way, they rule community, using their values sprung from their environment, cultures, and belief system.
Problems arrive when such groups try to recruit others' members, by saying their own is the rightest one, and pointing others as false.
As I tried to view such religions, it is obvious that when we view from inside, such belief systems are forming a complete set of inclusive uniteness, which if we compare with ours (view from outside), there are so many differences / contradictions.
 
"All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over black nor a black has any superiority over white except by piety and good action."

-from the Prophet's last sermon
 
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