Why is there a religion forum?
- Thread starter Frogger
- Start date
Originally posted by Frogger
The vast majority of people who post here (I would estimate 95%) are atheists. They don't believe in any God or gods, so why even have a religion forum? Its just the same old bashing this and bashing that. It's pointless.
ahh you rather have one that would bash me eh?
ConsequentAtheist
Registered Senior Member
Frogger, you have posted to 16 different topics, 8 of which are in the "Religion" forum. Put somewhat differently, the majority of topics that you've found worthy of your input have been in the "Religion" forum. Stop whining.
Because there is religion.
Religions, regardless of their veracity, have a powerful impact upon society. Philosophy, science, education, economics... every human endeavor throughout history has been affected in some way by religion. Most of mankind continues to believe in religion in one form or another. Asking why it should be a topic of discussion seems incredibly naive to me.
Further, atheists tend to differ from theists in a particular attribute known as skepticism. We tend to be skeptical of most everything or, at least, open to the possibility that what is thought to be true might not be. For skeptics, the discussion is never finished; no belief is so secure that it cannot be questioned. Thus the discussion continues.
The repetitive bashing does indeed get tiresome but it is generally in reply to the seemingly endless supply of theists that pop on in carrying the same-ol' tired and broken arguments; generally posted under exclamatory headings such as, "New Irrefutable Proof of God".
While I tend to agree with Tiassa in that Atheists should take some responsibility in driving more progressive discussions I also need to take issue with Theists. I mean, is there anything new that Religion has to offer or did Theistic philosophy reach its peak during the protestant reformation? The cutting edge of the creationist argument (definitely a philosophical backwater) is simply a switching of labels and purported "evidence".
Still, I await further "revelations" from any arena. What happened to this infinite fount of knowledge and wisdom? Is God so satisfied that his message was communicated perfectly so that there is no misunderstanding and nothing further to teach? Why is it that it supposedly flowed so freely thousands of years ago and that those who declare their revelations today generally turn out to be nutters (or at least have a perturbed perception of reality)? Would you believe me I claimed to be struck blind by Jesus on the road to Decatur and given new revelations about God?
~Raithere
Just because you don't understand the point does not mean there is isn't one.
Religions, regardless of their veracity, have a powerful impact upon society. Philosophy, science, education, economics... every human endeavor throughout history has been affected in some way by religion. Most of mankind continues to believe in religion in one form or another. Asking why it should be a topic of discussion seems incredibly naive to me.
Further, atheists tend to differ from theists in a particular attribute known as skepticism. We tend to be skeptical of most everything or, at least, open to the possibility that what is thought to be true might not be. For skeptics, the discussion is never finished; no belief is so secure that it cannot be questioned. Thus the discussion continues.
The repetitive bashing does indeed get tiresome but it is generally in reply to the seemingly endless supply of theists that pop on in carrying the same-ol' tired and broken arguments; generally posted under exclamatory headings such as, "New Irrefutable Proof of God".
While I tend to agree with Tiassa in that Atheists should take some responsibility in driving more progressive discussions I also need to take issue with Theists. I mean, is there anything new that Religion has to offer or did Theistic philosophy reach its peak during the protestant reformation? The cutting edge of the creationist argument (definitely a philosophical backwater) is simply a switching of labels and purported "evidence".
Still, I await further "revelations" from any arena. What happened to this infinite fount of knowledge and wisdom? Is God so satisfied that his message was communicated perfectly so that there is no misunderstanding and nothing further to teach? Why is it that it supposedly flowed so freely thousands of years ago and that those who declare their revelations today generally turn out to be nutters (or at least have a perturbed perception of reality)? Would you believe me I claimed to be struck blind by Jesus on the road to Decatur and given new revelations about God?
~Raithere
Raithere
Are you and your fellow athiests really interested in understanding what the thiest's have to say or are you more interested in tearing their positions to bits.
Suppose that God did exist what could she possibly do that would prove to you that she did exist?
Are you and your fellow athiests really interested in understanding what the thiest's have to say or are you more interested in tearing their positions to bits.
Suppose that God did exist what could she possibly do that would prove to you that she did exist?
ConsequentAtheist
Registered Senior Member
Demonstrate in a verifiable manner the ability to abrogate natural law.
We're interested in what theists say, so long as it isn't the same argument last week. And if their position gets torn to bits via reason and logic, well...
There are some theist arguments that have staying power, but many are repeated or modified from an older thought.
I doubt there's one atheist/agnostic here that would not hold some interest in a solid theist point, especially one that has something to back it up. Atheists are often made out to be someone who tries their best to destroy a religious belief, when really all we're doing is pointing out problems in the reasoning behind what we see. I say again, how can a person be a theist if they aren't convinced that religion is true? Faith? Some of us need more than that.
There are some theist arguments that have staying power, but many are repeated or modified from an older thought.
I doubt there's one atheist/agnostic here that would not hold some interest in a solid theist point, especially one that has something to back it up. Atheists are often made out to be someone who tries their best to destroy a religious belief, when really all we're doing is pointing out problems in the reasoning behind what we see. I say again, how can a person be a theist if they aren't convinced that religion is true? Faith? Some of us need more than that.
ConsequentAtheist:
"Demonstrate in a verifiable manner the ability to abrogate natural law."
I am not sure but isn't that a catch 22? So God proved to you she existed then what? Do you get down on your knees and worship her or do you spit in her face and tell her what a terrible job she did?
Jaxom:
From my point of view there is no proof there is only faith. I really think that the best discussions are sharing what you believe in and understanding what other people believe in.
I guess that not believing in anything is a reasonable response to the uncertain world.
"Demonstrate in a verifiable manner the ability to abrogate natural law."
I am not sure but isn't that a catch 22? So God proved to you she existed then what? Do you get down on your knees and worship her or do you spit in her face and tell her what a terrible job she did?
Jaxom:
From my point of view there is no proof there is only faith. I really think that the best discussions are sharing what you believe in and understanding what other people believe in.
I guess that not believing in anything is a reasonable response to the uncertain world.
frogger,
http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16714
There is an almost perfect proportion of atheists to theists.
The question should therefore be why dont more theists speak up more?
But your assumption seems to be that one must be religious to debate religion. That simply does not follow.
In this recent poll -
http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16714
There is an almost perfect proportion of atheists to theists.
The question should therefore be why dont more theists speak up more?
But your assumption seems to be that one must be religious to debate religion. That simply does not follow.
Nothing wrong with that. If it works for you...
I believe in plenty of things, some that may be lacking in enough evidence to be sure of. It just happens that to believe in a creator I'd have to stretch my belief system farther than I'm comfortable with.
ConsequentAtheist
Registered Senior Member
Talk about "catch 22"!
You asked: "Suppose that God did exist what could she possibly do that would prove to you that she did exist?" I respond to your question, only to hear you complain about some "catch 22".
A far simpler method to avoid answers to your questions might be to refrain from asking them.
Good grief!
You asked: "Suppose that God did exist what could she possibly do that would prove to you that she did exist?" I respond to your question, only to hear you complain about some "catch 22".
A far simpler method to avoid answers to your questions might be to refrain from asking them.
At one time, we did not have a religion forum at this site. So what do you do with those convinced that there is a God, whatever they believe him to be? They will always, always post their beliefs. Even today, religion appears in every forum on the site as those members state their views. Either they have to be moved or deleted.
It is much better to have a forum dedicated to that purpose so that those who so firmly believe can discuss the issues.
It is much better to have a forum dedicated to that purpose so that those who so firmly believe can discuss the issues.
CounslerCoffee
Registered Senior Member
Plus us theists like to debunk science when we can... Oh and make people mad, upset, angry... All because they think were illogical and stupid sheep. In the words of Musclewhatsupyall:
"MUSLIM IS TOO PRIMITIVE, IS NOT MODIFIED, IS THE SAME 6,000 YEARS AGO, AND YOU STILL USE SUCH METHOD TODAY AS IF ITS APPLICABLE.......TEACHING QURAN TO MODERN AND SMARTER HUMANS IS LIKE FEEDING MILK TO BODY BUILDERS, IT IS JUST NOT APPLICABLE ANYMORE...."
Er.... Yeah, something like that.
I believe this forum on religion is a very important part of this website. It is a great venue for discussion even though there are instances where ppl get really defensive and it turns into right vs wrong... i enjoy reading a many of the threads becuz it gives me insight into how the theists think... i dont necessarily agree with them about what they say, but its a good spot for ppl with different views to come and talk it out...
I can only speak for myself but I am interested in both argument and understanding. In fact, it is though debate that I refine my thoughts and achieve a greater understanding. I also attempt to post my thoughts clearly so that others might benefit in the same way.
Now, to be truthful, there are times when I take some pleasure in tearing up arguments but it's usually confined to those who present a load of crap as if it were gold.
This kind of begs the question from my POV. What I wonder is why God, if she exists, is not readily apparent. Why would she need to reveal herself; she should be as obvious as the Sun at noon or gravity. The definition of a God that 'hides' away in heaven and is not an integral part of everything is simply not God to me... any being that does not include everything is not infinite.
~Raithere
Raithere:
I too enjoy enjoy tearing a friendly opponets logic to pieces. Alas my friend Mike left several years ago and took Rush Limbaugh with him.
Why wouldn't God show herself to us? My first thought is well who am I to demand that God prove she exists. That isn't very satisfactory. My next thought is if God was right next to us verifiable with all of our senses I think that our free will may be overwhelmed. I believe that God wants us to choose goodness and love, she wants us to choose to be with her.
for example: How could a young man worth billions of dollars and handsom to boot feel confident that the women that wanted to mary him loved him for who he was not what he looked like or how much money he has. (I have been blessed by not having this problem)
Some people belive they see God in everything and some people don't. I look at my small part of the universe and it looks like God has been here so I have faith that she will be there for me in the end. Meanwhile I have the benifit of being happy, and the real cool thing is that I think when I am 90 and on deaths door step I will be happy also.
The logic of my beliefs is that I have maximized my lifetime happiness quotient. With the side benifit that I am nicer to other people too.
I too enjoy enjoy tearing a friendly opponets logic to pieces. Alas my friend Mike left several years ago and took Rush Limbaugh with him.
Why wouldn't God show herself to us? My first thought is well who am I to demand that God prove she exists. That isn't very satisfactory. My next thought is if God was right next to us verifiable with all of our senses I think that our free will may be overwhelmed. I believe that God wants us to choose goodness and love, she wants us to choose to be with her.
for example: How could a young man worth billions of dollars and handsom to boot feel confident that the women that wanted to mary him loved him for who he was not what he looked like or how much money he has. (I have been blessed by not having this problem)
Some people belive they see God in everything and some people don't. I look at my small part of the universe and it looks like God has been here so I have faith that she will be there for me in the end. Meanwhile I have the benifit of being happy, and the real cool thing is that I think when I am 90 and on deaths door step I will be happy also.
The logic of my beliefs is that I have maximized my lifetime happiness quotient. With the side benifit that I am nicer to other people too.
That would be refferred to as "deluding yourself" but if you are content with that than I can understand, it would probably be a much simpler and easier existence. What seems strange to me (and I have never met a "religious person" like this before) is that the way you write about this subject almost seems as though you KNOW you are deluding yourself... is that right? You say "I believe this because it makes my life happy" not "because evidence suggests..."
I personally can't lie to myself like that, I just can't, I wish I could.