God that fucker is the biggest SATAN,
First allows the sin, enjoys the show and then, Takes pleasure in punishing the sinner.
First allows the sin, enjoys the show and then, Takes pleasure in punishing the sinner.
Why doesn't God just show himself?
- Thread starter moementum7
- Start date
Jenyar,
I never said that the Bible is an application of what I believe.
I only said that some things said in the Bible are the same as what I believe. And some things taught by Zen are the same as I believe. And some things taught by the Quran are the same as I believe.
The God I do reject is the Christian He-God. And the Christian idea of eternal life and salvation etc.
I never said that the Bible is an application of what I believe.
I only said that some things said in the Bible are the same as what I believe. And some things taught by Zen are the same as I believe. And some things taught by the Quran are the same as I believe.
The God I do reject is the Christian He-God. And the Christian idea of eternal life and salvation etc.
P. M. Thorne
Registered Senior Member
Mario wrote: So just by looking at the harmonius universe you can tell that there is a god for sure, eh? Well the universe isn't all that harmonius. It is filled with cataclysmic events like supernovas and black holes. The gravity of a black hole defies conventional physics. Quantum physics is totally weird too...you can be (theorectically) in two places at the same time or arrive at some place before you even leave. And where is the harmony in violence? Violence in nature as well in humanity? It almost looks like satan created the universe instead of a loving god.
Good grief, Mario! Physics defied! Imagine that! What? No harmony, huh? Is this what you are saying? None in man; none in the universe.(?) Please, Mario. Surely this is not the message you wish to give. Am I do believe that you see nothing but devilish chaos? Hmm. I am amazed, truly, with your apparent view of this magnificant universe. Another thing, dear heart, there are some really neat folks on this planet, as there have been in the past.
Mario: We may be unable to prove that there isn't a god...but at the same time we can't prove that there is a god either.
Who we; we who?
Mario: All it comes down to is just a personal opinion. But the ones who say there is a god should come up with a little more evidence than "look around you...can't you see him?". No, I can't see him.
Right here, I find no humor to lend, nor can I fully respond, except to say that I am sure that you are an intelligent human being. Yet, I shutter to think that you would look to others to prove God. I say, stop it, I say. You have everything you need at your disposal. I do not believe that God has favorites. There is evidence, I swear. Go for it!
pmt
Good grief, Mario! Physics defied! Imagine that! What? No harmony, huh? Is this what you are saying? None in man; none in the universe.(?) Please, Mario. Surely this is not the message you wish to give. Am I do believe that you see nothing but devilish chaos? Hmm. I am amazed, truly, with your apparent view of this magnificant universe. Another thing, dear heart, there are some really neat folks on this planet, as there have been in the past.
Mario: We may be unable to prove that there isn't a god...but at the same time we can't prove that there is a god either.
Who we; we who?
Mario: All it comes down to is just a personal opinion. But the ones who say there is a god should come up with a little more evidence than "look around you...can't you see him?". No, I can't see him.
Right here, I find no humor to lend, nor can I fully respond, except to say that I am sure that you are an intelligent human being. Yet, I shutter to think that you would look to others to prove God. I say, stop it, I say. You have everything you need at your disposal. I do not believe that God has favorites. There is evidence, I swear. Go for it!
pmtP. M. Thorne said:
Where did he say 'no harmony?' He simply said that the entire universe wasn't harmonius--that there exist events which do not represent our idea of harmony.
Humanity.
Perhaps he is just using his common sense: let those making the claim either provide the evidence, or kindly be quiet about it. Perhaps he looks to others to prove God because they have the burden of proof.
If there is evidence, as you swear, why don't YOU show us?
P. M. Thorne
Registered Senior Member
FROM TIASSA: And, of course, your kind considerations of the situation are difficult to forget, especially amid that storm.
As I recall, you were very kind as well, and I have thought about those exchanges from time to time, and wondered how you were doing. Please do not take that as condescending; I also wonder at times how I am doing, okay? I am a people person, and sincerely care about stuff. This can be a rough old world, but in between is more than sufficient beauty and wonder to keep us going. You seem to find it.
TIASSA: I actually had been eyeing Wes' post, arguing with myself about whether, in one instance, I was reading what I thought I was reading, and in the other whether or not I would actually disagree or merely draw the circle with a different center and/or radius. Additionally, there's a point I definitely disagree with, but I haven't determined--because of the aforementioned considerations--its significance.
Very thoughtful analysis. As I mentioned, I gave Wes’s (bit of a different take) some thought, and probably more thought than I implied, because what really nudged me was this, yet another difference in expression, or appreciation. I do not want to get ridiculous about this, but the differences in mind-sets of expression often intrigue me more than the mind sets on opinions. Therefore, at least at times, it is nice to hear expressions that wander a bit, like maybe exploring more than reporting.
TIASSA: Technically and abstractly--as odd a combination as that may be--what other people do or think in terms of how they label you is entirely their own. ……….
True. FYI: I am not a Baptist and never have been. Now, someone might suppose that I am happy about never having been a Baptist. Huh? Not so, I simply wanted to make a point and figured the Baptists would not mind.
Someone once said of Spinoza that he belonged to the world, and not to elevate myself to his level of knowledge and talent, but I too feel much like I am part of something much bigger than my city, state, country, -and at least related to something- even bigger than this world. This is not grandiose! It is actually rather subtle. Not sure how much this has to do with my religious beliefs, because I have no recollection of ever feeling otherwise. As for labels, call me what you will. I think as I please, and do as I please, as long as I do not please to do too much!
TIASSA: If a Christian blows up an abortion clinic, other Christians move to disavow…….. If a Muslim blows up a (fill in the blank), other Muslims often hesitate to move to condemnation. Of course, as I understand it, Muslims have among the revelations from God through His Prophet that criticizing another Muslim is a very difficult issue. Part of the difference is the orthopraxy of Islam, as compared to the orthodoxy of Christianity.
In addition, if I may, Christians need not fear being killed for it, -not physically at least. When someone blows up an abortion clinic, I think, “What an idiot!”
TIASSA: The lack of open and definitive condemnation of "terrorism" from more than a scant few Muslim sources is oft-assigned the value that Muslims must therefore support the ugliest of terrorism.
I think I have seen this trait in other religions as well.
Sometimes, I have to wonder whether –and this is a bit awful— some Christians, hearing about the blown up clinic, smile before they say, “How awful?” Likewise, do some Muslims, grit their teeth and scowl when they hear the press releases about suicide bombers, feel some pride nonetheless? There is a verse in the Bible that reads, “The heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked, who can know it? It is up to each of us—as individuals of the human race to be ever cognizant of our purpose, to “purge our files” from time to time, and take stock. Having no purpose is like having no way home. Those who prefer to live as undisciplined as allowable under law, grind their gears and wear out their tires, but this is their choice. Others shun as much as possible of this world, hoping to be better equipped for the next one, and shake their heads, … and this is their choice. The rest of us think and wonder and think again, as we measure meanings and question ourselves and one another. What is that about an unexamined life? Yeah, I think that applies here.
So, where is God, some want to know? In nature, in the skies, in the depths of the ocean, in the vastness of the universe; or, is His Spirit in us . . . waiting to be acknowledged? Are we His children? If it is truly innate in man to believe in God, (Spinoza)why do so many seem to find it so hard to believe? I say, illusions! What we think we have, we have only conditionally. One thing we have for sure, is a false sense of security and power. We turn on the water and shower till our mind and body feel good. We turn on the air or the heat until we feel just right. One had to wonder; with so many ways of altering our environment how do we so often forget about the environment as a whole. If we cannot take care of this earth; if we cannot believe in—get a concept of—the value of this earth, why would we, or how could we, be expected to believe in its Creator?
We have automobiles, that go really fast, except in traffic. They can take us anywhere, almost. We have all kinds of stuff to alter our feelings, lift us, cheer us, entertain us. We have hundreds of stations on our Television machines! If we do not like how we look, we can change our looks in various kinds of ways. What can we not do? Relatively speaking, few of us have reason to live in fear, except maybe slow death by our own hands. We do have hope, oh, not in God, of course, but in ourselves, to destroy terror, to do away with poverty, to make every citizen of this nation (USA) a homeowner. We hope to find ways to feed the nations, because we want all children to have plenty to eat, (then we will not feel so guilty when we gorge ourselves). We hope to educate the children of all those nations, and get our own to stay in school a bit longer. Ahh, we have done well thus far in so many ways. A goodly number of us privileged citizens may suffer from loneliness, depression and anxiety, but we do we live much longer, though some of us have and will do this with the help of life support machines. We are intelligent, competent and all-knowing. We need no God. In fact, we have the resources to supply, and the expertise to orchestrate anything we might need. However, there is a concern going around about possibly needing a new earth.
TIASSA: ... in other words, allowing the human to become subservient to the identity politic, in the specific case of religious faith, is to turn one's faith away from God.
I like everything you wrote. There was little to which I stuck out my tongue! But, I really liked this quote from you. It is truly just another way we have of doing ourselves a great disservice, and I appreciate your mentioning it. It should be mentioned more often. This gives a good reason—I think—to not like labels. As for me, having none leaves me no place to run for cover if I should think of myself—even for a moment—as high and mighty. God forbid that I should ever hurt another is a moment of careless vainglory. Not that I never hurt anyone! I have, and I am sure, will again, but when I do, it is mostly ignorance. Is this better? No, I suppose not really… but because it is not intentional, and I can learn from it. One seldom learns much of anything while puffed up and full of oneself.
TERESSA: If someone is compelled to assign you to a box, it is entirely your choice to remain within that box in order to accommodate them, deliberately and demonstratively violate its boundaries, or even disregard the box entirely and transgress the stereotype on those occasions that you naturally do so and otherwise thumb your nose at the idea of such a narrow label.
Then, of course, there the choice to not ever be in a box at all, except perhaps in someone’s mind. I had to think about this label thing. Personally, I dislike any presumptuous comment about what I, or anyone I hold dear, think, feel, do, or have done. But then, I am a stickler for people saying what they mean, and meaning what they say, and when someone decides that I, or someone I can about, just fell into a category, or just fit into a label, they are not as smart as I should hope. It has been my experience that people who say, “Oh, you’re one of those………(whatever),” have issues and prejudices to accommodate. Am I wrong here? Take your best shot. I can take it. Ouch! Ouch! An example: More than once someone has told me that they thought they knew why I divorced. Never have these been correct. One guy thought I was a party girl, and my husband had probably been a homebody. I was in good humor, so I asked, with feigned delight, “How did you guess that?” “I just knew,” said he, “I can always tell.” Of course, he could guess! I do not even like parties, but he was so delighted with himself, I had not the heart to tell him he was wrong. Of course, that was trivia. When the issues matter, I give my best in responding accordingly.
Good quote from Emir Ali Khan. And, I like this: (And thank you kindly for your insight; if I fail to address what you might consider the point, it's because I haven't a "fightin' thesis" to work toward, and am compelled to travel a wider orbit for the sake of the scenery and how it can frame any given picture.) You are just so kind, and such a good writer.
It is okay that you disagree with me on some things. I will get you later! Just kidding.
Kind regards, and all that stuff. Good to hear from you again. / pmt
As I recall, you were very kind as well, and I have thought about those exchanges from time to time, and wondered how you were doing. Please do not take that as condescending; I also wonder at times how I am doing, okay? I am a people person, and sincerely care about stuff. This can be a rough old world, but in between is more than sufficient beauty and wonder to keep us going. You seem to find it.
TIASSA: I actually had been eyeing Wes' post, arguing with myself about whether, in one instance, I was reading what I thought I was reading, and in the other whether or not I would actually disagree or merely draw the circle with a different center and/or radius. Additionally, there's a point I definitely disagree with, but I haven't determined--because of the aforementioned considerations--its significance.
Very thoughtful analysis. As I mentioned, I gave Wes’s (bit of a different take) some thought, and probably more thought than I implied, because what really nudged me was this, yet another difference in expression, or appreciation. I do not want to get ridiculous about this, but the differences in mind-sets of expression often intrigue me more than the mind sets on opinions. Therefore, at least at times, it is nice to hear expressions that wander a bit, like maybe exploring more than reporting.
TIASSA: Technically and abstractly--as odd a combination as that may be--what other people do or think in terms of how they label you is entirely their own. ……….
True. FYI: I am not a Baptist and never have been. Now, someone might suppose that I am happy about never having been a Baptist. Huh? Not so, I simply wanted to make a point and figured the Baptists would not mind.
Someone once said of Spinoza that he belonged to the world, and not to elevate myself to his level of knowledge and talent, but I too feel much like I am part of something much bigger than my city, state, country, -and at least related to something- even bigger than this world. This is not grandiose! It is actually rather subtle. Not sure how much this has to do with my religious beliefs, because I have no recollection of ever feeling otherwise. As for labels, call me what you will. I think as I please, and do as I please, as long as I do not please to do too much!
TIASSA: If a Christian blows up an abortion clinic, other Christians move to disavow…….. If a Muslim blows up a (fill in the blank), other Muslims often hesitate to move to condemnation. Of course, as I understand it, Muslims have among the revelations from God through His Prophet that criticizing another Muslim is a very difficult issue. Part of the difference is the orthopraxy of Islam, as compared to the orthodoxy of Christianity.
In addition, if I may, Christians need not fear being killed for it, -not physically at least. When someone blows up an abortion clinic, I think, “What an idiot!”
TIASSA: The lack of open and definitive condemnation of "terrorism" from more than a scant few Muslim sources is oft-assigned the value that Muslims must therefore support the ugliest of terrorism.
I think I have seen this trait in other religions as well.
Sometimes, I have to wonder whether –and this is a bit awful— some Christians, hearing about the blown up clinic, smile before they say, “How awful?” Likewise, do some Muslims, grit their teeth and scowl when they hear the press releases about suicide bombers, feel some pride nonetheless? There is a verse in the Bible that reads, “The heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked, who can know it? It is up to each of us—as individuals of the human race to be ever cognizant of our purpose, to “purge our files” from time to time, and take stock. Having no purpose is like having no way home. Those who prefer to live as undisciplined as allowable under law, grind their gears and wear out their tires, but this is their choice. Others shun as much as possible of this world, hoping to be better equipped for the next one, and shake their heads, … and this is their choice. The rest of us think and wonder and think again, as we measure meanings and question ourselves and one another. What is that about an unexamined life? Yeah, I think that applies here.
So, where is God, some want to know? In nature, in the skies, in the depths of the ocean, in the vastness of the universe; or, is His Spirit in us . . . waiting to be acknowledged? Are we His children? If it is truly innate in man to believe in God, (Spinoza)why do so many seem to find it so hard to believe? I say, illusions! What we think we have, we have only conditionally. One thing we have for sure, is a false sense of security and power. We turn on the water and shower till our mind and body feel good. We turn on the air or the heat until we feel just right. One had to wonder; with so many ways of altering our environment how do we so often forget about the environment as a whole. If we cannot take care of this earth; if we cannot believe in—get a concept of—the value of this earth, why would we, or how could we, be expected to believe in its Creator?
We have automobiles, that go really fast, except in traffic. They can take us anywhere, almost. We have all kinds of stuff to alter our feelings, lift us, cheer us, entertain us. We have hundreds of stations on our Television machines! If we do not like how we look, we can change our looks in various kinds of ways. What can we not do? Relatively speaking, few of us have reason to live in fear, except maybe slow death by our own hands. We do have hope, oh, not in God, of course, but in ourselves, to destroy terror, to do away with poverty, to make every citizen of this nation (USA) a homeowner. We hope to find ways to feed the nations, because we want all children to have plenty to eat, (then we will not feel so guilty when we gorge ourselves). We hope to educate the children of all those nations, and get our own to stay in school a bit longer. Ahh, we have done well thus far in so many ways. A goodly number of us privileged citizens may suffer from loneliness, depression and anxiety, but we do we live much longer, though some of us have and will do this with the help of life support machines. We are intelligent, competent and all-knowing. We need no God. In fact, we have the resources to supply, and the expertise to orchestrate anything we might need. However, there is a concern going around about possibly needing a new earth.
TIASSA: ... in other words, allowing the human to become subservient to the identity politic, in the specific case of religious faith, is to turn one's faith away from God.
I like everything you wrote. There was little to which I stuck out my tongue! But, I really liked this quote from you. It is truly just another way we have of doing ourselves a great disservice, and I appreciate your mentioning it. It should be mentioned more often. This gives a good reason—I think—to not like labels. As for me, having none leaves me no place to run for cover if I should think of myself—even for a moment—as high and mighty. God forbid that I should ever hurt another is a moment of careless vainglory. Not that I never hurt anyone! I have, and I am sure, will again, but when I do, it is mostly ignorance. Is this better? No, I suppose not really… but because it is not intentional, and I can learn from it. One seldom learns much of anything while puffed up and full of oneself.
TERESSA: If someone is compelled to assign you to a box, it is entirely your choice to remain within that box in order to accommodate them, deliberately and demonstratively violate its boundaries, or even disregard the box entirely and transgress the stereotype on those occasions that you naturally do so and otherwise thumb your nose at the idea of such a narrow label.
Then, of course, there the choice to not ever be in a box at all, except perhaps in someone’s mind. I had to think about this label thing. Personally, I dislike any presumptuous comment about what I, or anyone I hold dear, think, feel, do, or have done. But then, I am a stickler for people saying what they mean, and meaning what they say, and when someone decides that I, or someone I can about, just fell into a category, or just fit into a label, they are not as smart as I should hope. It has been my experience that people who say, “Oh, you’re one of those………(whatever),” have issues and prejudices to accommodate. Am I wrong here? Take your best shot. I can take it. Ouch! Ouch! An example: More than once someone has told me that they thought they knew why I divorced. Never have these been correct. One guy thought I was a party girl, and my husband had probably been a homebody. I was in good humor, so I asked, with feigned delight, “How did you guess that?” “I just knew,” said he, “I can always tell.” Of course, he could guess! I do not even like parties, but he was so delighted with himself, I had not the heart to tell him he was wrong. Of course, that was trivia. When the issues matter, I give my best in responding accordingly.
Good quote from Emir Ali Khan. And, I like this: (And thank you kindly for your insight; if I fail to address what you might consider the point, it's because I haven't a "fightin' thesis" to work toward, and am compelled to travel a wider orbit for the sake of the scenery and how it can frame any given picture.) You are just so kind, and such a good writer.
It is okay that you disagree with me on some things. I will get you later! Just kidding.
Kind regards, and all that stuff. Good to hear from you again. / pmt
TheERK said:
You've hit a very important point: ". . . there exist events which do not represent our idea of harmony."
Mario is correct in that sense: the universe is not very harmonious from our perspective. But that perspective depends entirely on how we limit the harmony.
The Universe exists as a whole, it would seem. There is harmony. What appears discordant to us is not necessarily so, and can only be established to be discordant if we limit our definition of harmony and pretend that definition is real.
P. M. Thorne
Registered Senior Member
TheERK
Registered User (142 posts) Today, 01:35 PM
Well, how do you do? I did not see much indication of harmony. Either something works harmoniously or it does not, right? However, rest assured that I give full credit to your comments.
“ Who we; we who? ”
Humanity.
Woe! Are you also Mario, because though I favor your commenting, I do sort of wonder why you are taking point by point. If you are not him, how do you know what he means? Just wondering.
Perhaps he is just using his common sense: let those making the claim either provide the evidence, or kindly be quiet about it. Perhaps he looks to others to prove God because they have the burden of proof.
You are there. I have burden of proof. This is not a world court case. Besides, I do not look to man for such things, so why would I try to prove God to you. I am dead serious. Why would I?
If there is evidence, as you swear, why don't YOU show us?
I really wish I could, friend, but that is not my job. I am just human, like you. Quite frankly, I find it hard to understand why you would find it such a mystery. Have you ever asked yourself what it would take to make you aware of Almighty God? What sign would you need, that would be infallible proof, to you! Or, have you ever just talked to yourself about it, aloud? When I have a question, I talk to myself and to God about it, because that is the way I connect. I do not ask for much, specifically, other than to serve my purpose. Shoot, I know of no ritual, or special words. Quite frankly, it scares me more when one believes what I say than when they disbelieve, because, when one is obviously paying close attention and believing me, I feel this enormous inadequacy, and then--believe me--I talk to God.
I did not mean to offend, but it saddened and dumbfounded me that anyone could see no, or at least seemingly so little, harmony in the universe. Even with man too often making a mess of things, this poor old world is still functioning. Every time I hear of a bomb being dropped somewhere, I think of the earth, as well as people. Are never amazed that things are going as well as they are in this world, in spite of our ignorance and carelessness? I am.
Adios.
Registered User (142 posts) Today, 01:35 PM
Well, how do you do? I did not see much indication of harmony. Either something works harmoniously or it does not, right? However, rest assured that I give full credit to your comments.
“ Who we; we who? ”
Humanity.
Woe! Are you also Mario, because though I favor your commenting, I do sort of wonder why you are taking point by point. If you are not him, how do you know what he means? Just wondering.
Perhaps he is just using his common sense: let those making the claim either provide the evidence, or kindly be quiet about it. Perhaps he looks to others to prove God because they have the burden of proof.
You are there. I have burden of proof. This is not a world court case. Besides, I do not look to man for such things, so why would I try to prove God to you. I am dead serious. Why would I?
If there is evidence, as you swear, why don't YOU show us?
I really wish I could, friend, but that is not my job. I am just human, like you. Quite frankly, I find it hard to understand why you would find it such a mystery. Have you ever asked yourself what it would take to make you aware of Almighty God? What sign would you need, that would be infallible proof, to you! Or, have you ever just talked to yourself about it, aloud? When I have a question, I talk to myself and to God about it, because that is the way I connect. I do not ask for much, specifically, other than to serve my purpose. Shoot, I know of no ritual, or special words. Quite frankly, it scares me more when one believes what I say than when they disbelieve, because, when one is obviously paying close attention and believing me, I feel this enormous inadequacy, and then--believe me--I talk to God.
I did not mean to offend, but it saddened and dumbfounded me that anyone could see no, or at least seemingly so little, harmony in the universe. Even with man too often making a mess of things, this poor old world is still functioning. Every time I hear of a bomb being dropped somewhere, I think of the earth, as well as people. Are never amazed that things are going as well as they are in this world, in spite of our ignorance and carelessness? I am.
Adios.
P. M. Thorne
Registered Senior Member
TIASSA: I see you got to him before I did. Let me say this: He also mentioned man, so I was of the impression that by universe, he was including everything in it, and I do see harmony; otherwise, we would be running into each other all the time. When things evolve, there would be a mess.
You really brought out a good point; nonetheless, I stand by what I said. I should hope that we are congnizant of the harmony that is harmony by our definition.
That all. Bye.
You really brought out a good point; nonetheless, I stand by what I said. I should hope that we are congnizant of the harmony that is harmony by our definition.
That all. Bye.
starofeight, see, acording to the greeks the meer sight of the god would kill u, that is propaganda working, fearing the gods so you don't ask questions, saying oh they have to exsist because there wouldn't be nobody to tell if it was true or not because they would die. Dogma is only a movie, not real life.
No...TheERK is not me. But he sees things almost exactly the same way I do. I think we can define harmony as the condition that makes us comfortable and pertaining to our survival. Harmony that results in good and positive things. There is no harmony in killer storms (tornadoes, hurricanes, typhoons etc) or earthquakes or degenerative genetic diseases or killer viruses and bacteria or anything else that causes us harm that seems to have been created by god for some ungodly purpose. Don't get me wrong. There are many things that are harmonious and pleasant in this universe. But by generalizing that the whole universe is nothing but a harmonious symphony created by god is a bit of a stretch.
As for finding god in (by) yourself well that's all fine and marvy. It doesn't hurt anything or anyone. But I can't help wondering...what's the difference between having a belief in god and just plain old wishfull thinking? Can you really trust your emotions?
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Getting back to god not showing himself for fear of taking away our free choice for believing in him, well when the second coming of christ happens you might as well kiss your free choice goodbye. And didn't god interfere with our free choice all along? He parted the red sea in front of everyone and sent all kinds of plagues and turned the nile into blood just to name a few instances. Heck he proved his existence many times in the past. So why did it stop?
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And btw, aren't we born with sin ("no one is without sin"/original sin)? Didn't god make that a fundamental part of our nature? So who really is to blame if we have all these temptations that we're not supposed to act on? It almost sounds like some kind of lab experiment. And we're the test subjects.
As for finding god in (by) yourself well that's all fine and marvy. It doesn't hurt anything or anyone. But I can't help wondering...what's the difference between having a belief in god and just plain old wishfull thinking? Can you really trust your emotions?
-----------------------------------------------------------
Getting back to god not showing himself for fear of taking away our free choice for believing in him, well when the second coming of christ happens you might as well kiss your free choice goodbye. And didn't god interfere with our free choice all along? He parted the red sea in front of everyone and sent all kinds of plagues and turned the nile into blood just to name a few instances. Heck he proved his existence many times in the past. So why did it stop?
-----------------------------------------------------------
And btw, aren't we born with sin ("no one is without sin"/original sin)? Didn't god make that a fundamental part of our nature? So who really is to blame if we have all these temptations that we're not supposed to act on? It almost sounds like some kind of lab experiment. And we're the test subjects.
again mario
James 1
13When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; 14but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed. 15Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.
James 1
13When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; 14but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed. 15Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.
mindraker said:
The fact I referenced a movie featuring a shit monster should've indicated my post wasn't particularly serious.
EDIT: And I believe the point of the story, in which Zeus' oft-spurned wife tricks his latest fucktoy in demanding the sight of him, was more about being careful what you wish for, although that would fit into your interpretation.
I know what you're saying SouthStar but why do we have those urges to sin? And what is original sin? Isn't that some sort of "inherited" sin from adam and eve? The bible is always saying that we are imperfect beings and we need to control ourselves with god. But we didn't make ourselves. God did. So ultimately everything goes back to the creator.
Oh no, not the debate about freewill again. hahaha. Hi okinrus. Haven't heard from you in awhile. If we really have freewill then god should not know how we are going to choose. Only we know what is going on inside our heads. Only we know what we are going to choose. And sometimes even WE don't know how we are going to choose. Our minds can change at any second. Spontinaeity. Spur of the moment. That sort of thing. And especially under times of stress we can lose control of our minds and make irrational choices that we would normally not do. So when god says that man has a sinful nature then he is making a broad generalization based on knowledge that he should not even be aware of. Individual freewill is just that. Individual. And subject to change at any given moment.
Which now leads us to the old (and tired) debate that if god knows the future then there is no such thing as randomness or spontinaeity. Only predestined fate.
Your turn....
Which now leads us to the old (and tired) debate that if god knows the future then there is no such thing as randomness or spontinaeity. Only predestined fate.
Your turn....
tiassa said:
I'm glad that you asked.
I think that when talking about a certain phenomenon, we cannot but talk about it within a certain context -- and most adequately: we cannot talk about a phenomenon without regards to the context it originally appears in, its native context.
A phenomenon receives meaning only within its native context, through the relations it has with other elements of a given system.
The phenomenon "God" appears within a certain ideology -- be it called religion or philosophic system. Hence we are, one way or another, doomed to talk about "shoebox" gods, as you called them.
We can try to come up with a "generic god" -- but even that god is a part of a philosophic system, regardless how non-ideological and non-religious that system may seem.
So when talking about God, we are also talking about religion, yes.
I guess we wish that there would be something like a generic god, and that that god would show himself/herself/itself -- and be visible to everyone, regardless of their religion. I think that it was in the air of such thinking that the question of this thread was asked.
But apparently, that "generic god" is only in our minds, as a "generative principle". That generic god cannot show himself/herself/itself directly -- he/she/it can appear only in a certain way, and that way is respectively defined by each religion and ideology or philosophy. From here on, it is a fight of "which religion is the right one".