Why does man have such a large fleshy brain organ?

[-Bob-]

Bob:

Basically, Ockham's razor means that you shouldn't add more onto an explanation than is absolutely necessary.

Umm, thats what I said. Did you try looking at the wikipedia link yourself?

Wikipedia says: "When multiple explanations are available for a phenomenon, the simplest version is preferred."

Oh yah.

For instance, when talking about consciousness and the brain, we can observe that removing or damaging pieces of the brain has a certain effect on behavior and consciousness. We can conclude from this that the brain that is being affected is responsible for said behavior and awareness patterns. Now, you're adding on this extra bit about maybe it's just how the soul get's through from some other plane into ours.

But wait a minute.... you don't explain how consciousness is created. You only explain how it is affected. My explanation is not equivalent to yours. You could only apply Occam's razor, if you could actually explain this consciousness crap to me. But you can't.

Yes. The religion of science and research instead of your religion of maybes.

No. Just you.

Oh see now you're just proving my point. Your "faith" is no better than mine!

 

[invert_nexus]

Umm, thats what I said. Did you try looking at the wikipedia link yourself?

Wikipedia says: "When multiple explanations are available for a phenomenon, the simplest version is preferred."

Oh yah.

You might have also read that this is an ambiguous way to say it and it might be better to say it like this: "We are to admit no more causes of natural things than such as are both true and sufficient to explain their appearances."

In other words, don't tack on this untestable soul to a physical phenomena that can be tested.

How about this? Let's redefine soul. Soul=brain. Then we can agree.

But wait a minute.... you don't explain how consciousness is created. You only explain how it is affected. My explanation is not equivalent to yours. You could only apply Occam's razor, if you could actually explain this consciousness crap to me. But you can't.

You're not explaining how consciousness is created either. You're just making up some untestable source for it. Instead of the brain you're saying it comes from the soul.

And, no, I can apply Occam's razor because there is phenomena that is able to be explained by physical processes. The exact mechanism are still being worked out, but it has been shown without a doubt that the source of consciousness is the brain. Change the brain, change consciousness. You, on the other hand, can't even hold a soul in your hands or prove that such a thing exists let alone show that changes in this soul affect consciousness.

Oh see now you're just proving my point. You're "faith" is no better than mine!

How many trolls did it take to cross the bridge?

Its another argument for my theory. If these animals have bigger brains than us, then why the hell are they so stupid? Maybe because they don't have a soul.

It's not the size of the brain but the number of connections. Guess what else these animals don't have that we do have? Something that is physical and can be shown as opposed to this soul of yours.

 

[ElectricFetus]

Its another argument for my theory. If these animals have bigger brains than us, then why the hell are they so stupid? Maybe because they don't have a soul.

Maybe it is because they don't have hands. These creatures do seem to have language. Elephants have even been seen to have burial practices. Beside if this is a intelligence issue that these souls of your cause then retards obviously are missing them.

Beside intellect and hands that most humans have, we really aren’t different from the animals; we have all the same emotions, instincts and urges as they do.

Show us this evidence of these souls, real tangible evidence.

 

[Athelwulf]

Okay, -Bob-, ya really have a thick head. But I'm gonna try to get through it.

So why does it [the brain] need to be so large?

Probably kuz it needs to fill our big heads.

mmmkay. So you think we have souls, and are those souls capable of thinking, feeling, percieving? So it does all that crap without the brain? If so, isn't the brain useless?

I wouldn't ignore the possibility that we have souls. I just think that the brain is actually necessary.

Try looking out your window dude.

*Looks out window*



Oh my god, IT'S AN INVASION!!!!!

Oh right. First you argue against my assertion that brain cells are useless, then you go drinkin a bottle of vodka.

Um . . . I didn't go drinking a bottle of vodka . . . yet.

Earth to Athelwulf!

I'm sorry. I can't come to the phone right now, for I'm on a trip to Mars. Please leave a message after the duh.

. . . Duh!

Alchohol kills brain cells. A good drinking session kills brain cells like a boxing match or a strong blow to the head.

I seriously doubt that it kills that many brain cells.

And saying that you feel the same afterwards only proves my point further. I mean sure that stuff changes the way you think, but how? Maybe it only deludes your senses, and not your mind.

Ya feel fine, but that doesn't prove yer point.

Thats a good idea.

Yes, 'tis. Ya know how I came up with it? I used my brain!!!!!

Good one Einstein.

Ya flatter me.

Poke me and I get excited.

Oooh, kinky!

It may be that things which affect the brain, work to occlude or otherwise block the interaction between body and soul. Like the light from a lamp might become dimmer. Read this.

AHA!!!!! Ya just contradicted yerself. The brain, in this scenario, serves as a portal through which the soul and body can interact. That's a use!

It makes me laugh inside that ya contradicted yerself so overtly.

The doctor said my brain was damaged though.

Woah, yer doctor is the next Einstein. How could he've possibly figured that out?!

We know that humans have spirit because only they are capable of self-consciousness.

How can ya know that humans are the only beings capable of self-consciousness?

Earth to -Bob-! We aren't necessarily better than animals in every category! Stop shrinking them furry critters!

I heard from an inside source that the gorillas jack off all day. It true.

How does that prove anything? I jack off all day too. It true.

Most animals are certainly not self-conscious.

Prove it!

There is no scientific evidence that we have souls.

Theres no scientific evidence that consciousness is produced by the brain.

So that automatically makes ya right?

It might be in another dimension or something, how the hell do I know?

It'd be nice if ya did know . . . considering ya brought up this theory!

Plus theres no way I can imagine using a brain to fuck with or fucking a brain, it seems to be protected by the skull for some reason, I wouldnt know why.

I know why. We use it!

Face it. The brain is the seat of consciousness.

But I don't want to.

Ya kinda hafta. Kuz it's the truth.

Its another argument for my theory. If these animals have bigger brains than us, then why the hell are they so stupid? Maybe because they don't have a soul.

How are they "so stupid"? It's so stupid to say they're so stupid.

O' course, if I were to argue for yer side, I could say that maybe their souls are stupid.

See, yer theory is crumbling fast. And, to say it bluntly, that makes me laugh inside.

 

[Avatar]

Its another argument for my theory. If these animals have bigger brains than us, then why the hell are they so stupid? Maybe because they don't have a soul.

Let me give you a beautiful Douglas Adams quote as my reply ->

"Humans think they are smarter than dolphins because we build cars and buildings and start wars etc...and all that dolphins do is swim in the water, eat fish and play around. Dolphins believe that they are smarter for exactly the same reasons."

 

[vslayer]

ok, without reading the previous 4 pages, animals have the advantage on speed, claws or some form of weapon, we on the other hand, throught natural selection, evolved to have larger brains, meaning we can make the tools necessary to get food from obscure places or bring down animals much bigger than us.

chimps do it too, physically they dont have a lot of advantage, but they use their brains to figure out how to get food with tools

 

[Sleepy_118]

Bob, make up your mind, you started off this whole argument by saying that the brain is a giant waste of flesh, and then, after being told it does affect our body's functions, thoughts, feelings, etc, you came up with some crap about how it's "A seat for the soul" or something, which if somehow can be proven, means that the brain DOES serve a purpose.

Anyways, I can ramble on and on for pages about how thick-headed your being, but I'll sum it up like this, using a quote fron another thread that you wrote.

I had this great teacher back in high school. He was so good that he had his technique down pat and I'm sure he hasn't varied for years. His strategy was to insult the students and call them 'cretins' when they got shit wrong. He made everything very simple for people, threw no curveballs, very well structured and conceptually simplified, yet effective. He had this plastic hammer he called the 'decretinizer' and would beat the students when they displeased him. If you were really bad, he would give you 'the foot of justice'. That means kicking you in the ass.

By any chance, did this teacher ever once mistake your head for your ass?

 

[Communist Hamster]

The brain is for feeding hungry zombies

 

[invert_nexus]

And another quote by Bob in TruthSeeker's How Powerful is Love thread:

I am quite incapable of feeling love (due to the fact that I have no soul). But I'm sure its the shit nevertheless. Or else why would people write so many books about it?

 

[Buckaroo Banzai]

People, don't feed the trolls, please...

 

[-Bob-]

Invert Nexus: let me help you out here.

As for your beliefs about the soul, I am presently satirizing them in the thread entitled "Why does man have such a large fleshy brain organ?". I encourage you to post there and come to my defence. It would be humorous.

Athelwolf: I am glad you are laughing inside. That is the way it should be. I assure you I am also quite amused.

Anyhow thanks people, suffice it to say I'm now going to have to reconsider my 'beliefs' here.

 

[invert_nexus]

Bob,

let me help you out here.

No need. How many times have you been called a troll already? And now you come out with your amazing revelation that you admit to being a troll? We already knew this. The only reason anyone devoted any time to you at all is because this is what the forums have been reduced to.

I assure you I am also quite amused.

Yes. Trolls usually are.

 

[Athelwulf]

-Bob-,

Athelwolf: I am glad you are laughing inside. That is the way it should be. I assure you I am also quite amused.

Ya spelt my name wrong. It's not AthelWOLF. It's AthelWULF.

I'm glad that yer glad I'm laughing inside. And I'm glad that ye'r also quite amused.

Anyhow thanks people, suffice it to say I'm now going to have to reconsider my 'beliefs' here.

Wow . . . That was relatively quick.

Anyway, . . . yes, SciForums does that to ya. Welcome to it.

 

[-Bob-]

No need. How many times have you been called a troll already? And now you come out with your amazing revelation that you admit to being a troll? We already knew this. The only reason anyone devoted any time to you at all is because this is what the forums have been reduced to.

Poor, poor boy. I think you actually believed I was serious. I've been asked if I was a troll, and I never lied. Fetus and Athelwolf, maybe, maybe not. But surely if you knew I wasn't serious, you must of been making that argument for some damn reason.

What do you mean 'this is what the forums have been reduced to'? Reduced to what? People who are unable to see humor in abstract philosophical positions?

 

[invert_nexus]

But surely if you knew I wasn't serious, you must of been making that argument for some damn reason.

What argument? That the brain has a purpose? I assure you that I could have gone into far more depth of detail than the little bits that I threw out. I didn't do so because I knew that you were a troll.

What do you mean 'this is what the forums have been reduced to'? Reduced to what? People who are unable to see humor in abstract philosophical positions?

No. Reduced to feeding the trolls.

 

[Shenzhou]

What's this about "feeding the trolls"?
Aren't you allowed to argue a point that you don't believe in? It's good to play devil's advocate sometimes. It's not as if anybody is obliged to involve themselves.

 

[invert_nexus]

What's this about "feeding the trolls"?
Aren't you allowed to argue a point that you don't believe in? It's good to play devil's advocate sometimes.

It's not that he was 'playing devil's advocate', but rather the way that he was doing it. He wasn't arguing a point, he was just making ridiculous claims and refusing to accept evidence that refuted his 'point'. He did this not to spark a discussion by defending a point that he doesn't believe in. But rather to 'satire' the religious who hold his view. He was acting like he feels they act. Blind and stupid. In other words, he was just trying to stir up controversy.

Now, one of my largest problems with this point of view is the inclusion of his main point being the 'soul'. He purposefully placed this thread in a biology forum to discuss the soul. He drew the contributions of the physical sciences to ridicule the theists. He should have placed this thread in the religious forum. That's my biggest beef with him. He knew exactly what reaction he would receive in here and that reaction was exactly the one that he was wanting to receive.

Know what I wonder? I wonder if he actually read through that tripe that he linked to? And it's funny that he expected anyone to read it in here. Now, if he had posted in the religious forum, he'd undoubtably have found a few takers for his ideas and then he could have basked in the fact that he had 'fooled' some religious whackos.

Anyway. Doesn't matter.

It's not as if anybody is obliged to involve themselves.

That's right. Nobody's obliged to feed trolls. And yet sometimes we do anyway.

 

[Shenzhou]

Oh, fair enough.

Tsk Bob, shame on you.

 

[Emmveepee]

Oh? So, the peacock's tail has a reason?

To attract mates?

But this threadstarter is nuts.

 

[spidergoat]

Yes the peacock's tale is the result of sexual selection, perhaps our brains are too. The person who could create elaborate courting rituals, music, decoration, etc. might be preferred over a stupider, less creative mate.

It is a very good question and no one really knows for sure, but we can speculate that a larger brain (in proportion to body size) would give a creature some evolutionary advantage.

Maybe it started when our ancestors began using their hands more, and needed a more complex control mechanism.

An obvious idea is that the human brain is better able to model the environment, and thus make more accurate predictions about where to find food.

A larger brain can invent better weapons and hunting techniques, like the spear or club, or learning to track animals by their footprints.

A larger brain can increase your food supply in other ways. If you are able to tell your children about how and where to find food, they will know without neccessarily having to practice it directly, I guess that has to do with language, which is a huge advantage over other animals.

A larger brain can invent better huts to keep out rain and insects that may lead to disease. It can remember plant medicines to treat disease.

A larger brain can invent agriculture.

I think the list could go on and on. Once on it's way, there is the possibility of a feedback loop happening. Larger brain-better survival-more offspring with even bigger brains, etc...