Interesting, now that you mention it, every instance I can recall that talks about hell and those that are there or put there does not say it is an eternal destiny.
Why do you believe?
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Interesting, now that you mention it, every instance I can recall that talks about hell and those that are there or put there does not say it is an eternal destiny.
interesting. well then, for all religious people know he was, so it still doesn't explain a lot of religious behavior imo. i think i have that book around here in a compilation called "lost books of the bible", but i don't recall reading about his childhood.
i would imagine that it was very very difficult for jesus to come to terms with who he was and what it meant. i don't get the impression that he ever completely understood. certainly he was privy to enough revelation to accomplish what he was meant to, but unless he had a crystal ball, it would be impossible to realize the full extent of what was going on. he had to feel like he had the weight of the world on his shoulders his whole life. and i'm not making excuses, i'm just trying to relate.
bottom line, christ means everything to me, because it works. there's a difference between being nice and being loving, and though i have felt tortured by my own spiritual experience, and very confused trying to reconcile what it means, and what to do with myself in light of it, jesus has always been loving towards me, and has taught me that above all else, humility is the key to knowledge.
i recall the testimony of a NDE where a man said he went to hell, called on jesus to save him, and jesus came to hell and got him out. after i heard that, i didn't understand why the other beings there didn't ask him to take them out too. because there were others there, in the dark and in torment, tormenting, with this man. but when jesus came he was surrounded by a bright light, and when the others saw the light they ran away and hid from it. god told me that they didn't want to see themselves in the light. that they were afraid of it. and from what i see in people that are still alive, that's not hard for me to believe.
damnation is a choice. it's hard not to believe in it when you see people choosing it every day.
actually, i don't recall ever making that claim...about eternal damnation. especially in light of that NDE testimony. i don't know what happens to us after we die. i don't know what heaven is, and the only thing i know about hell is that it's a place that is void of god's spirit.
i think that, if while you're alive you reject god, like people do...and i've heard all the reasons and justifications for it...then after you die, you get what you want.
:shrug:
Because hallucinations don't always follow the rules of rationality.
i wasn't asking you, and that wasn't the answer.
Beings who have been living in the dark for a long time are afraid of light, this is natural. Many are even unable to function in the light, physically and spiritually.
For example, when after earthquakes, people are saved from under the rubble after many days, the rescuers cover their eyes and the person needs to adjust to the light only slowly, because the light of day could irrepairably damage the eyes of someone who has been without light for long enough.
When people come into first contact with spiritual truths, they mostly cannot just snap out of their old lifestyle patterns, it takes time and practice to become fully adjusted to that. If they try to do it too fast, things like "religious/spiritual addiction" can happen, which is a very unhealthy way to approach spirituality.
I suppose it is a question of empathy though what conclusions one draws from that.
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God, who is spirit, not having a physical body, is the cause or power that created all that is spirit and physical. He chose to have children and we are being tested to see if we will accept Him as our Father or not. So to listen to the light is to listen to Him but to listen to the dark is to be encased in matter and that is finite. We cannot comprehend all things in this body. He is the Way to understanding and fulfillment of our soul through the spirit he gives when you accept Him.
Socratic Spelunker
Registered Senior Member
I believe in God because:
1. Religious experience
2. Science repeatedly confirms what religions have taught for centuries
I'll leave it there for now
1. Religious experience
2. Science repeatedly confirms what religions have taught for centuries
I'll leave it there for now
I don't believe in any higher being because:
1. I think any form of afterlife is a human hope for a purpose or for eternal life, and distracts from the reality of the recycling of our body's atoms and the death of our thoughts.
2. I don't think that a knowing creator of the universe makes any sense. Either multiple universes, recycling universes or eternal universes are perfectly acceptable and rational ideas for me, and I have no reason to believe we were 'designed'.
3. All the other questions I have are answered by things like cosmology, biology, and palaeontology.
4. I am quite comfortable believing I will die, and have no reason to hope for or have faith in there being any different.
This is hard
1 I believe in god
2 I believe my Mother and Father are god
3 I believe my children are god
4 I believe in the higher power of my Family
5 I will do every thing I can to heighten the power of my family because I believe in them. I hope they believe in Me.
6 O.K. sorry for having a number 6 You know what they say about 6s I believe All humans are my family
If I can give the tools I have acquired to my family with love in my heart for them to succeed then they will have a better chance at obtaining success in there life. This makes Me happen when it is realized.
If I continue to learn from your vast knowledge you have acquired from living life then I will have more to give to my family.
1 I believe in god
2 I believe my Mother and Father are god
3 I believe my children are god
4 I believe in the higher power of my Family
5 I will do every thing I can to heighten the power of my family because I believe in them. I hope they believe in Me.
6 O.K. sorry for having a number 6 You know what they say about 6s I believe All humans are my family
If I can give the tools I have acquired to my family with love in my heart for them to succeed then they will have a better chance at obtaining success in there life. This makes Me happen when it is realized.
If I continue to learn from your vast knowledge you have acquired from living life then I will have more to give to my family.
Except where it refutes what religions have taught for centuries.
if I were to believe in god, it would be in relation to the sum of existence and its parts. Everything about this universe, even down to the inner workings of an atom, is incredible. I don't think it has a name, and I don't think it requires worship. It simply is what it is.
Socratic Spelunker
Registered Senior Member
I'm not sure when that's happened (only because I'm not a historian or an expert on the doctrines of mainstream Christianity), but I do agree that a lot of theists have some pretty silly ideas.
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Apparently you didn't have much of an education at school either: ever heard of Galileo? Geocentric solar system? As taught by the bible...
Among other things.
Mind Over Matter
Registered Senior Member
My life would not change because, as it's impossible to prove God does not exist. The only thing that might change under the pressure of "new information" is that our concept of God might change - but even that is unlikely....
Socratic Spelunker
Registered Senior Member
The Bible doesn't teach geocentrism. That's one of those silly ideas I mentioned. Nice try though. It became popular because prideful priests couldn't imagine anything in the universe more important than them, but I don't know that I've ever seen it in the Bible...
I also see you haven't read the bible.
You don't think a fixed Earth and a moving Sun indicate, slightly, a geocentric system?
Socratic Spelunker
Registered Senior Member
I also see you haven't read the bible.
Yes, I have, but I disagree with the literal interpretation that lead to geocentrism.
You're reading it literally. There are verses that say the Earth can't be moved, but it could be, and probably should be, read as meaning that it cannot be moved from it's course. We still even use that phrase today. People who have great determination are said to be immovable. Do you think they literally stand still? Likewise, we say that the Sun rises and sets... even though it doesn't really...
Perhaps 2000 years from now people who are totally ignorant of our culture and literary style will think we believed in a geocentric universe because we also use these kinds of phrases, but I guess they would have to have no idea what a metaphor is.
I agree with you that a fixed Earth and moving sun indicate a blah blah blah, but I also think that those old priests read these verses in a very close-minded and ignorant way.