Why do you believe in Jesus?

I said the ancestors of the Jews, and how do you know that Shem, Arphaxad, Terah etc. didn't keep the accounts which would become Genesis?

The format of the "these are the origins of's......" are Middle East cuneiform style, with a collophon sign off at the bottom by the owner, and why do you suppose the Hebrew word for to write is to cut in, if they weren't writng cuneiform style?
 
Not me, but thanks for your concern.
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Forgot to read the last symptom? "Denial that anything is wrong"? the symptoms fit your character to a T, specially has they have been displayed here on this forum, it's obvious that we don't see your mood swings in real life, but I wouldn't dout that you have them, told by your own accounts ;)
 
I said the ancestors of the Jews, and how do you know that Shem, Arphaxad, Terah etc. didn't keep the accounts which would become Genesis?
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The ancestors of the jews were Sumerians, the founder of the jews was Sumerian, the garden of eden was in Sumeria, the Sumerian writings of the flood would, by being written 1,500 years earlier, be much more accurate than any version told a millennia and a half later.

There is no "ancestor of the jews" account of the deluge other than that. When Moses writes about deluge, he is talking from 1,500 years after the Sumerians wrote about it.

The format of the "these are the origins of's......" are Middle East cuneiform style, with a collophon sign off at the bottom by the owner, and why do you suppose the Hebrew word for to write is to cut in, if they weren't writng cuneiform style?
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I fail to see the relevance of this. The origin of many Hebrew words comes from Sumerian, (who wrote on tablets). Even several of their months are named after Sumerian gods.

The point here is that the biblical deluge story has been written 1,500+ years after the Sumerian deluge story and can therefore not be considered anywhere near as accurate. Of course you try to label it as "sloppy" but cannot support that claim in any way whatsoever.
 
The line from Noah to Abraham is through Shem, whose son Asshur is the namesake of the Assyrians, Nimrod, from Ham and Cush, was the big dog over Sumer.

Everybody lived in that region after the Deluge, before they began to disperse around the world by land and sea, and another son of Shem, Arphaxad, was of the line which would produce Abraham.

The Sumerian Deluge account and the Jewish one both describe the same event, the global Deluge, corroborated by hundreds of ancient global Deluge legends from seemingly disparate people groups, the Sumerian account, like all the rest, are plainly bastardized, but obviously describe the same event.
 
The Sumerian Deluge account and the Jewish one both describe the same event, the global Deluge, corroborated by hundreds of ancient global Deluge legends from seemingly disparate people groups, the Sumerian account, like all the rest, are plainly bastardized, but obviously describe the same event.
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A) You keep making the same undeniable mistake: The Sumerian account predates the biblical account by 1,500+ years. The biblical account is the one that is "bastardized". You simply cannot refute that.

B) You say "corroborated", when the fact of the matter is that there's no "real" evidence to suggest a global flood ever took place. While cultures do borrow stories off of each other, that doesn't hint at the reality of that story - especially in a time when the world would have seemed so small. A global flood in their eyes would have been but a small river flood - which happens even today in many places on the planet.

Again I repeat: There is no evidence to suggest a global flood ever happened.

Again I repeat: By that very fact that it was written 1,500 years earlier, the Sumerian stories cannot be a "bastardization" of biblical accounts - because those biblical accounts didn't even exist at the time.
 
Hey Snake, if it was "but a small river flood," then why did only eight survive, don't you think those people were smart enough to walk up a hill?
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The tsunami.. couldn't the people have just climbed onto the top of their houses? "Disasters" are always worse when you're in the middle of it. Climbing up a hill is easy from our perspective, but a lot more difficult when slap bang in the middle of a "disaster". Our times have many things in place to prevent disaster but they can and do still occur but the same is not true of people of ancient times. What is seemingly easy for us sitting at home comfortably will soon change if it came to the crunch.

However, while we could debate the finer points I think the last post I made left enough to work on.
 
Did Jesus exist? I believe that a very spiritual man named Jesus most probably existed, he was crucified most likely, but was he the son of God is another question. The main gospels were written many years after his death, so stories get exagerrated, were the miracles he performed likened to the ones we see today performed by "faith healers". Spiritual Healers channel God's healing powers through their bodies, they say it works!! So if you believe in Jesus fair enough.
 
IAC: Just because we have an earlier but sloppy account of the Deluge from other than the Jews doesn't mean the Jewish patriarchs weren't also compiling records at that time, and the format of "these are the generations (origins) of..." in the Genesis account bespeaks eyewitness accounts, reported on cuneiform tablets (the Hebrew word for to write, is to cut in, into clay tablets), signed off on at the bottom, in a collophon, traditionally signed by the owner or scripter of the tablet.
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M*W: What about the original version of the Code of Hammurabi? That turned into the later, plagarized, sloppier copy of the Ten Commandments, thanks to Moses, the Egyptian.

Moses had a stack of these tablets, and edited and redacted them as needed.
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M*W: Yeah, the Egyptians as a whole "had a stack of these tablets," to do with them what they saw fit. Your point?

The stories of Moses in the bulrushes, the Exodus, burning bush, the Ten Commandments, the Promised Land, and more, were not original, were not written by the Egyptian Moses, and did not occur as real events. No golden chariots were found in the Red Sea, and no shards were left by nearly a million Egyptian Abiru (ancestors of the Hebrews) while they traversed the Sinai Desert. No Jew made it to the Promised Land, but many hundreds of thousands of Egyptians did but not during any Exodus, but Moses didn't live to write about his own death. That was done by Egyptian scribes, no Hebrews in sight! In fact, if you want to go as far back as history will take you, the ancient Egyptian Abiru who became the Hebrews, were sun worshippers. Abraham was a pantheist who became a monotheist sun worshipper. All ancient man-made religions worshipped the one creator god, the Sun.

There are no eyewitnesses to anything in the entire bible. Why? Because it's a work of fiction.
 
sidalby: Did Jesus exist?
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M*W: There is no evidence to his existence.

I believe that a very spiritual man named Jesus most probably existed, he was crucified most likely, but was he the son of God is another question.
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M*W: Sure, a man named Jesus could have probably existed, there is absolutely no Roman record of the crucifixion of a man named Jesus.

The main gospels were written many years after his death, so stories get exagerrated, were the miracles he performed likened to the ones we see today performed by "faith healers".
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M*W: Regardless of when the gospels were written, they were works of fiction. There were no miracles then, and there have been no miracles by modern-day faith healers.

Spiritual Healers channel God's healing powers through their bodies, they say it works!! So if you believe in Jesus fair enough.
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M*W: I don't believe in the fine art of channeling. The only thing we each channel through bodies is our own bioelectrical energy. There is no god to channel through.
 
IceAgeCivilizations said:
Why would anyone, and I mean anyone, describe "but a small river flood" as a Global Deluge?
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He was exaggerating to make a point. Frankly, any flood that wiped out a good portion of the surrounding area would have seemed as though the entire world flooded. Since the flood accounts by the Sumerians predates any vessel that could have traveled very far with the rations that would have been available, it would have been essentially impossible for the Sumerians who documented the event to know that the world wasn't covered with water. Do you also believe that two of every species managed to fit on a boat with eight people? Not only billions of animals, but rations for them as well? Or did everything magically fit and forgo food? I, personally, do not feel that there is a reason to share even the more liberal beliefs of Christianity (i.e. believing that most of the bible is full of stories that gave a moral and were divinely inspired), but accepting the Christian bible as literally true despite its direct contradictions with scientific knowledge is ridiculous.
 
Godless, Snakelord, Medicine woman, you are destroying this thread. The religious members were trying to talk about why they believe in Jesus, and I was very interested to hear about IceAgeCivilization's experience with Jim and Tammy Faye.

It is revealing that the formative experience for him was not based on an examination of scriptures, but a spontaneous and unexpected occurance.
 
I apologize for assisting ruining your thread. I'll stay out of it unless I end up with something relative to say.
 
Why would anyone, and I mean anyone, describe "but a small river flood" as a Global Deluge?
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How would you expect them to know whether it was global? Sattelite imaging perhaps? it's all about perspective Iceage..

We're not talking 2007 here, we're talking thousands of years ago where one village would have seemed massive in comparison to the believed size of the earth.

Godless, Snakelord, Medicine woman, you are destroying this thread
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My apologies, Was not my intention - just got dragged down questioning Adstar's little gem..
 
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