Why do we need a God?
- Thread starter aaqucnaona
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Let's look at it another way. What if the Christian fundamentalists are absolutely correct? What if Jesus is the only route via which to properly approach and therefore know God? It's a big claim, and it's potentially critically important to investigate it.
How does one determine whether or not it is true?
Only if we see individuality as something to be done away with.
This is where goodwill comes in.
For the Christian eternal-damnationists to be considered right or at least to take them seriously, one must take for granted that God is a monstruous being and that the whole point of correct religious choice is to escape the wrath and punishment of this monster.
One cannot simultaneously practice goodwill and directly or indirectly conceive of God as a monster.
The desire to "choose the right religion" / "to figure out which religion is the true / right one" is driven by a defensive / competitive / combative attitude which necessarily paints God as a monster (and as such presents him as a being not worthy of worship, or trust).
He is not wrong; he just sees things from his perspective.
Christian fundamentalists don't see God as a monster. They see him as a loving father. So they would argue that this grossly inaccurate characterization of yours is simply a feature of your rejection of him, or a symptom of a 'hardened' heart.
So again, how do you reliably determine whether or not they are correct about this?
What you appear to be saying is that while use of the religious epistemological tool kit might not produce reliable results, science doesn't either, so that's OK.
Let me ask you the same question that I'm asking wynn: how have you been able to determine that the claims of the Christian fundamentalists are incorrect?
Perhaps the easiest point to discuss is because it relies upon an inferior definition of god.
IOW a god who restricts his mercy to a small window of culture and time to the exclusive exclusion (to the extreme point of declaring any other form of religiosity as a shortcut to hell) of vast swathes of geography over eons is not as encompassing as a god that doesn't.
(You can also follow the historiography of christianity to find clues why and how certain parties benefit from crafting christianity in such a manner ("its us and only us who are right") - like for instance in early christianity when they made the move big time to swell congregations by focusing on pagans instead of the miserly stream of reformed jews ... or when Aquinas starts to grease the cogs of war for conquest abroad etc etc)
Actually, even many Christian fundamentalists believe that anyone, in any culture, at any time, may be saved; that it would be silly to suggest that everyone else is automatically lost due to an accident of geography; that God is unable or unwilling to make exceptions.
Having said that however, if one is in a position to learn the real truth about God, what he has done for us, and how we are to properly approach him, but still does not, then one's eternal destiny is not secure. In other words, if one denies that the sacrifice that God made for us, that Jesus made for us, should be the primary focus of our worship, then one is in serious trouble.
So for now at least, my original question remains.
then it starts getting weirder
How did god extend his mercy to 10th century natives in australia ... or even 10 BC India or Jerusalem ?
And if taking birth outside the cultural/chronological/geographical golden age automatically awards one a blue ribbon (on account of jesus not being on the scene or whatever) why must everyone caught in the folds walk the hard mile?
as I said earlier, it relies on a definition of god that suffers from being too narrow, since, globally speaking, perhaps 1% of the world's population for the past 100 000 years has had the opportunity to come to the" real position" ... which becomes even more absurd since the remaining 99% are defaulted the benefits of coming to "real position" on account of being essentially excluded the opportunity
The problems are becoming more pronounced the more you try to explain it
“You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, because you were slain, and with your blood you purchased for God persons from every tribe and language and people and nation." - Rev 5:7
Christian's don't really claim to know exactly how God went about this, but not being privy to the details is not a legitimate reason to doubt that it happened, not according to the Christian viewpoint anyway.
You misunderstand. The Christian fundies are saying that about the people who have been exposed to the truth. People such as you.