Why do we need a God?

[Big Chiller]

*humour ahead*
However, the way I see it, God is being laid off from many Jobs. We no longer is the one to create humans, create animals, create life, create earth and the solar system. He might, just might still be the one to create the universe.
*end of humour*

So now we have to ask, did God leave us, knowing that we can care for ourselves, having become spacefarers; and is therefor irrelevant anymore or Maybe, he wasn't there all along?

So - Do we need a God and Why?

God still can be the one to have created everything in every aspect, facilitated every moment of our existence just not through physical causality. I wouldn't say God is needed rather that we wouldn't exist and have needs without God's influence.

 

[river]

God still can be the one to have created everything in every aspect, facilitated every moment of our existence just not through physical causality. I wouldn't say God is needed rather that we wouldn't exist and have needs without God's influence.

so god is needed

 

[wynn]

but god needs us

Why would God need us?

 

[kx000]

Why would God need us?

Company. He doesn't need it, but he sure as hell wants it.

 

[Aqueous Id]

"We" don't need God any more than we needed Baal, Jove, Brahma, Allah, or any of innumerable gods of all the pantheons that ever were or ever will be.

We just need the basic necessities of life, and we're good to go. Common sense would help, but apparently it's not a necessity, or we all would be born with it.

 

[lightgigantic]

"We" don't need God any more than we needed Baal, Jove, Brahma, Allah, or any of innumerable gods of all the pantheons that ever were or ever will be.

We just need the basic necessities of life, and we're good to go. Common sense would help, but apparently it's not a necessity, or we all would be born with it.

hence :

For as long as one isn't really interested in making actual solutions to material existence (in short : attachment to things that will shortly cease to exist) one will have a tough time understanding the relevance of god or the role the material world plays in the divine orchestration of things

 

[Sarkus]

For as long as one isn't really interested in making actual solutions to material existence (in short : attachment to things that will shortly cease to exist) one will have a tough time understanding the relevance of god or the role the material world plays in the divine orchestration of things

You imply that material existence is something that is "solvable", as if it were some form of equation rather than a constant.

Any person promoting a "solution" will of course want you to accept that there is a "problem" to begin with... advertising is full of it. But at least the majority of advertising and marketing we are used to seeing is governed by some form watchdog, such as the ASA.

So feel free to demonstrate that there is a problem, but please do so with more than just appeals to emotion and wishful thinking.

 

[lightgigantic]

You imply that material existence is something that is "solvable", as if it were some form of equation rather than a constant.

Any person promoting a "solution" will of course want you to accept that there is a "problem" to begin with... advertising is full of it. But at least the majority of advertising and marketing we are used to seeing is governed by some form watchdog, such as the ASA.

So feel free to demonstrate that there is a problem, but please do so with more than just appeals to emotion and wishful thinking.

So let me get this straight.

You don't think attachment to things that will shortly cease to exist is a problem of this world?

 

[Sarkus]

Should I?
I can see how economic materialism (i.e. the excessive striving for goods / products) is a societal and cultural problem, but that is just a matter of resources and distribution thereof.
But material existence itself? A problem?
How exactly is it a problem? And why do you think it is?

 

[lightgigantic]

Should I?
I can see how economic materialism (i.e. the excessive striving for goods / products) is a societal and cultural problem, but that is just a matter of resources and distribution thereof.
But material existence itself? A problem?
How exactly is it a problem? And why do you think it is?

Its actually a bit broader than what you are depicting.

Any appearance of insecurity (and their subsequent application of defense/protection) on an individual, community or national level is an expression of this problem.

This can take a form from issues of production, social status and/or economics that dictate a certain quality of life to the inevitability of mortality itself.


IOW its the nature of having "something" ( a bank account? a house? a bicycle? a partner? a (hopefully good) reputation? a body?) that one enlists a host of ultimately futile attempts to preserve it.
And what to speak of having it, if one doesn't have it, then one hatches a host of plans to acquire it (or if that fails or is not possible, a host of plans to fool others into thinking we have it) .
In this way the problem establishes a kind of characteristic dichotomy between the mind (the source of attachment) and the body (the canvas that we dress our attachments on) that translates into the literally moment by moment experience of want, envy, hatred, loathing, avarice, etc which is the driving force behind conditioned existence which destroys any hope for a peaceful life and renders "conflict" as the universal language of material existence.

This is the indubitable, insolvable "anxiety" of material existence.

No amount of resource distribution, technology or collective or individual co-operation can hope to solve it (since everything in a temporary world with a temporary ego is simply "here to go")

Its a quality so endemic to material existence that happiness is commonly misunderstood as the temporary mitigation, forgetfulness or outright ignorance of this inevitability.


In short, its practically impossible to indicate a single problem of this world that doesn't fall under this banner.

 

[spidergoat]

hence :

For as long as one isn't really interested in making actual solutions to material existence (in short : attachment to things that will shortly cease to exist) one will have a tough time understanding the relevance of god or the role the material world plays in the divine orchestration of things

What's the problem that it needs a solution?

 

[Sarkus]

All the problems you describe are of our making, not of material existence per se: a lifeless universe gets along just as well with no issue whatsoever.

And as for happiness, many would also say that it is far from being the temporary mitigation etc, but rather the acceptance of the inevitability.

And as even you hold it to be inevitable, why is it the problem, rather than the problem being your inability to accept it?

 

[wynn]

All the problems you describe are of our making, not of material existence per se: a lifeless universe gets along just as well with no issue whatsoever.

And as for happiness, many would also say that it is far from being the temporary mitigation etc, but rather the acceptance of the inevitability.

And as even you hold it to be inevitable, why is it the problem, rather than the problem being your inability to accept it?

To accept that "life as it is usually lived" is "as good as it gets"
is to ease into the prospect of complete misery:
it is to attempt to be happy while being miserable.


You don't see a problem with that?

 

[wynn]

So feel free to demonstrate that there is a problem, but please do so with more than just appeals to emotion and wishful thinking.

While your molars rot ...

 

[wynn]

What's the problem that it needs a solution?

Like massive boulders,
mountains pressing against the sky,
moving in from all sides,
crushing the four directions,
so aging and death
come rolling over living beings:
noble warriors, priests, merchants,
workers, outcastes, & scavengers.

They spare nothing.
They trample everything.

Here elephant troops can hold no ground,
nor can chariots or infantry,
nor can a battle of wits
or wealth win out.

 

[spidergoat]

To accept that "life as it is usually lived" is "as good as it gets"
is to ease into the prospect of complete misery:
it is to attempt to be happy while being miserable.


You don't see a problem with that?

Maybe you are the problem in not realizing that we have all that we need to be happy. Death doesn't make me unhappy because I will never experience it.

 

[wynn]

Maybe you are the problem in not realizing that we have all that we need to be happy.

Really? Can you explain this in more detail?

Death doesn't make me unhappy because I will never experience it.

You daily experience death, in its various forms, as death doesn't refer just to the physical death of your body, but to all endings:
people you have known die, animals die so you can eat them, things get worn and aren't useful anymore, relationships end, employment ends, the time of peace and prosperity ends.

All those people, animals and things that you rely on in order to be happy - they all die, become broken, end.

 

[spidergoat]

According to you this is how God made it, so why can't you appreciate it? Endings and beginnings aren't separate things opposing each other like a cosmic battle, they are both aspects of the same thing, one cannot exist without the other. That is the essential difference between east and west. Eastern thought sees things as a coherent whole. Unhappiness (except when caused by lack of food, clothing, shelter) comes from within. Western thought as characterized by religion sees this world as a miserable rest stop on the way to paradise. But even Jesus said that the kingdom of heaven is all around you, only you do not see it.

 

[Sarkus]

To accept that "life as it is usually lived" is "as good as it gets" ...

Who is promoting this argument? I'm not.
I am saying that LIFE is as good as it gets.
One makes of it what they will.
Yes, there are material problems of our own making - we are not an ideal fit to the environment in which we reside - and they have material solutions that we are required to make ourselves.

To conclude that material existence is itself a "problem" and needs a "solution" just does not seem to follow.

While your molars rot ...

Exactly: a material problem of our own making with a material solution that we put together.
Do you suggest we invoke a God to resolve our teeth issues?

 

[wynn]

Who is promoting this argument? I'm not.
I am saying that LIFE is as good as it gets.
One makes of it what they will.

If we look at the things people in general tend to do with their lives, it still comes down to simply attempting to postpone the inevitable.

To conclude that material existence is itself a "problem" and needs a "solution" just does not seem to follow.

Do you not aspire to a happiness that would not be subject to aging, illness and death?

Exactly: a material problem of our own making with a material solution that we put together.

Teeth decay. It's in their nature to decay.
So how is tooth decay a problem of our own making?

Do you suggest we invoke a God to resolve our teeth issues?

They say there was never yet a philosopher that could endure a toothache.

But I guess if a person has the mentality of an eHow article then everything is possible, even philosophically enduring a toothache.