Why do we need a God?

[aaqucnaona]

What kinds of God are there?

I outlined three types in "My Jouney to Atheism" -

"I refer to god in three senses:

Ideological: This is the god of religion IN the minds of its followers. He is the ideological set of beilefs that drive and motivate deeply religious people. He exists in the sense that he can make a terrorist lay down his life without hesistation or convince a catholic that his protestant friend will burn in hell. Such gods exist only as long as the people who believe in them do. In this sense, Thor and Zeus are extinct Gods while Jesus and Allah are extant ones. The evangelical movement in America can be understood as a 'jesus conservation initiative', fighting the rational and scientific in a country where both are increasing at an alarming rate.

Experiential: This is the god we experience, though is largely misplaced by people into the third category. This god of experience is the name we give to the wonder one experiences marvelling at the beauty of an orchid, in reflecting how evolution shaped it as such, how simple insects and plants sustain a complex relationship like pollination. This is the god we feel looking at sunset, looking at the gradient in the sky, realising how the increased length of the light's path redshifts the scattered light in the atmosphere. This is the joy we feel looking at a hummingbird in slow motion, seeing its wings swivel in a figure 8. This is accentuated, not diminished, when we do xrays on the birds, test it in wind tunnels and determine the structural stresses the little wings bear. This god, of course exists in the sense discribed above, but no more than that. Indeed, my own conversion to atheism seems almost paved by a higher power. I know, of course, that this is explained by confirmation and personal bais, though that doesnt take away its wonder for me. I feel happier that I understand why it looks apparently paved for me.

Literal: This is a misplacement of a experiential god within a ideology resulting in belief that the ideological god is a real something, with misplaced examples of experiential god as proofs. This is the god of fundamentalist religions and he almost certainly doesn't exist. "

Each of these three catagories can have many Gods as per the people who experience or think about them.

 

[aaqucnaona]

For someone who believes the above, you have an awful lot to say ...

Sure I do, you may have noticed I never make claims or debate anyone on topic we dont know about as of yet. But God has been pushed out of most Gaps He formerly occupied, hence my Gnostism and my weak atheism.

 

[kx000]

What kinds of God are there?

There is God who is black(all) and white(white), then there is the grey(some), myself being part of the grey. The grey makes its it all up again when picked apart.

 

[Unconcept]

If god is perfect, he has already achieved everything. that there'd be no reason to do anything. I'd rather if there's a spectrum of currently incomprehensible concepts (using the mechanism of our brain) waiting to be discovered and understood

“Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known.”.
-- Dr. Carl Sagan

 

[lightgigantic]

If god is perfect, he has already achieved everything. that there'd be no reason to do anything. I'd rather if there's a spectrum of currently incomprehensible concepts (using the mechanism of our brain) waiting to be discovered and understood

“Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known.”.
-- Dr. Carl Sagan

hence a clear distinction between god and the (conditioned) living entity is that god has no need for fruitive activities (or activities born out of an intrinsic lack)

 

[wynn]

So God does things because He overflows with wealth of various kinds?

 

[lightgigantic]

So God does things because He overflows with wealth of various kinds?

Its more that practically all things we do stem from the pursuit of an intrinsic lack of wealth of all kinds (and the folly of carrying that line of thinking to an omni personality)

 

[wynn]

Sure.

But the question posed - "Why does God do things if He is perfect?" still stands, and still engages many people.


I am not against putting questions aside, if this is what you want to do. But when putting a question aside, it has to be done so with a good justification.

 

[lightgigantic]

Sure.

But the question posed - "Why does God do things if He is perfect?" still stands, and still engages many people.


I am not against putting questions aside, if this is what you want to do. But when putting a question aside, it has to be done so with a good justification.

There are many reasons - to set the example, to escalate already perfect experiences (since if perfection was static, it wouldn't be perfect)

 

[wynn]

(since if perfection was static, it wouldn't be perfect)

Why not?

A popular reason one can often hear against perfection is that perfection is static, and thus boring, thus undesirable.

Perfection is often equated with the perfect, yet cold classical marble statue.

 

[lightgigantic]

Why not?

A popular reason one can often hear against perfection is that perfection is static, and thus boring, thus undesirable.

Perfection is often equated with the perfect, yet cold classical marble statue.

So if ice cream is the perfect food (for the sake of argument) there are no ways to make it better?

Or is the second place winner of Miss America ugly?

Or does the runner up winner of the chocolate cake bake off make cakes that taste like cardboard?

IOW does variety within the realm of perfection render things intrinsically inferior?

 

[wynn]

I don't think that a hierarchical - and yet inclusivistic, holistic - conception of perfection is very common.

Although one can find it sometimes. For example, a praise like this can sometimes be found in popular magazines:
"Apples are the perfect food. Whether you eat them grated, sliced, with sugar and cinnamon or without, or whether you just take healthy bites from the delicious fruit, an apple unfailingly delivers its precious nutrients and refreshment."

It seems to be difficult to imagine variety in the realm of perfection.

As the saying goes, "there can be only one at the top."

 

[lightgigantic]

As the saying goes, "there can be only one at the top."

thats the kind of philosophy derived from action born of the pursuit of an intrinsic lack of want

 

[wynn]

If I am understanding you correctly, then, in roundabout, all monotheists (Catholics, Protestants, Jews, Muslims, some Hindus, henologists / natural theologists, and perhaps even deists and a few others) could be considered perfect - since they all in one form or another, worship God whom they conceive of as The One.


Although it is then difficult to explain how come these supposedly perfect people often practice so much contempt for others.

If everyone who worships God is perfect - is then a kanistha perfect?

 

[Arioch]

@wynn --

If everyone who worships God is perfect - is then a kanistha perfect?

Apparently Hitler was also perfect, and thus by extension so were his plans. Amazing how such perfect plans failed so miserably.

 

[lightgigantic]

If I am understanding you correctly, then, in roundabout, all monotheists (Catholics, Protestants, Jews, Muslims, some Hindus, henologists / natural theologists, and perhaps even deists and a few others) could be considered perfect - since they all in one form or another, worship God whom they conceive of as The One.

Its more that this is the ground work for proceeding with perfection. Kind of like the perfect car driver proceeds to go forward by having the car in drive ... which of course doesn't mean that that is all a perfect driver requires to do.

Although it is then difficult to explain how come these supposedly perfect people often practice so much contempt for others.

If everyone who worships God is perfect - is then a kanistha perfect?

As a general rule, madhyama sets the pace for being a "pure" devotee

 

[aaqucnaona]

Its more that this is the ground work for proceeding with perfection. Kind of like the perfect car driver proceeds to go forward by having the car in drive ... which of course doesn't mean that that is all a perfect driver requires to do.

You have already discussed the meaning of perfection for you, be does it mean for a devotee to be on the path to perfect or be perfect? What does that relate to in the real world?

As a general rule, madhyama sets the pace for being a "pure" devotee

How?

 

[wynn]

Apparently Hitler was also perfect, and thus by extension so were his plans. Amazing how such perfect plans failed so miserably.

There's a saying:
All that is necessary for evil to spread in this world is for good men to do nothing.


Adolf Hitler himself would be powerless and would go down in history as yet another anonymous person, were it not that there were already so many people in Germany and other countries who had the kind of mentality he espoused or who were prone to it or ready for it; and were it not for so many other people who believed what the early NSDAP was doing was wrong and who nevertheless didn't do anything to stand up against it while it was still early and fully legal to do so.

 

[GASHOLE]

If God did not create man(and God never existed at the first place), then man would have created God.

 

[Gravage]

The fact is everyone needs to believe in something, so if people believe in God let them, atheists believe in something else, if you ask me what I believe in, right now nothing.
I guess there are times when people don't believe in anything.