Why do we get wisdom teeth?

What do you mean ? Like an extra set of molars in case you lost a few ?
Wisdom teeth are generally weak compared to normal molars. That's one of the reasons they are often extracted. They are pretty useless.
You have to remember that in the ancient days people didn't get as old as we get, not by far.

Wisdom teeth arrive by the time you're in your twenties. Average life span of our prehistoric ancestors is estimated around 35 years. I've read that a major contribution to mortality was our teeth wearing out and us not getting a second pair.

As for life span, maximum human life span hasn't changed in recorded history. Maybe by a few percent, from 105 to 110. Average life span has increased a great deal, but despite all our advances in science & medicine, age limits haven't changed. Why this is is subject to a great deal of debate and research, and at the moment, is probably outside of our ability to change. Hard to lengthen telomeres, reduce oxidative stress from respiration, and make immortal stem cells that don't turn into cancer with our current knowledge of molecular biology.
 
My biology professor and my boss at the museum both said that humans are losing teeth. Which is why quite a large number of people are born missing wisdom teeth. Natural selection at work I guess :shrug: I only had three of them and had them removed because they were growing underneath my other molars, glad their gone.
 
One of the Egyptian kings, Ramses 2 lived to be over 90 years old and fathered over 100 children.

"He was born around 1303 BC and at age fourteen, Ramesses was appointed Prince Regent by his father Seti I. He is believed to have taken the throne in his early 20s and to have ruled Egypt from 1279 BC to 1213 BC for a total of 66 years and 2 months, according to Manetho. He was once said to have lived to be 99 years old, but it is more likely that he died in his 90th or 91st year. If he became king in 1279 BC as most Egyptologists today believe, he would have assumed the throne on May 31, 1279 BC, based on his known accession date of III Shemu day 27. Ramesses II celebrated an unprecedented 14 sed festivals during his reign—more than any other pharaoh. On his death, he was buried in a tomb in the Valley of the Kings;his body was later moved to a royal cache where it was discovered in 1881, and is now on display in the Cairo Museum."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramesses_2

Can we assume that people that did get older didn't have rotting wisdom teeth from age 20 on ?
Of course some people got older. But due to lack of medical care and a hard life people on average didn't get very old.
 
My biology professor and my boss at the museum both said that humans are losing teeth. Which is why quite a large number of people are born missing wisdom teeth. Natural selection at work I guess :shrug: I only had three of them and had them removed because they were growing underneath my other molars, glad their gone.

It's more like natural indifference :p
 
Wisdom teeth arrive by the time you're in your twenties. Average life span of our prehistoric ancestors is estimated around 35 years. I've read that a major contribution to mortality was our teeth wearing out and us not getting a second pair.
That makes sense. But fact is that most wisdom teeth are quite useless today. They remain impacted, come out sideways etc.
I think both theories ('shorter jaws while same size teeth' and 'wisdom teeth are back-up teeth') are right.

As for life span, maximum human life span hasn't changed in recorded history. Maybe by a few percent, from 105 to 110. Average life span has increased a great deal, but despite all our advances in science & medicine, age limits haven't changed. Why this is is subject to a great deal of debate and research, and at the moment, is probably outside of our ability to change. Hard to lengthen telomeres, reduce oxidative stress from respiration, and make immortal stem cells that don't turn into cancer with our current knowledge of molecular biology.
Agreed.
 
My biology professor and my boss at the museum both said that humans are losing teeth. Which is why quite a large number of people are born missing wisdom teeth. Natural selection at work I guess :shrug: I only had three of them and had them removed because they were growing underneath my other molars, glad their gone.

What selection, though?
 
Can we assume that people that did get older didn't have rotting wisdom teeth from age 20 on ?
Of course some people got older. But due to lack of medical care and a hard life people on average didn't get very old.

on average no, but that's not what you said. You said they didn't get as old. They did, just not in the quantity we do. So I accept your apology.
 
They got as old as we do. Just not as many of them.
There have always been statistical outliers, but the average life expectancy dropped precipitously after the Agricultural Revolution, when Neolithic humans began subsisting on grains instead of meat and their civilized descendants became even less carnivorous. Skeletons dug up of the last of the hunter-gatherers show that the life expectancy of an adult who had survived childhood (no mean feat of course) was in the low fifties. By the Roman era it had dropped to the low twenties. Prosperity increased the meat in the diet and by the end of the 19th century life expectancy (of adults) in the USA was back up into the thirties. Antibiotics, asepsis and vaccinations reduced infant mortality, the discovery of vitamins and minerals gave everyone a healthier diet even if they insisted on eating too many vegetables, hospitals allowed more women to survive childbirth and automation allowed men to take jobs that were less life-threatening, so the life expectancy of adults has doubled, and the life expectancy at birth has more than tripled.

And of course dentistry and fluoride have helped us all keep more of our teeth.:)
My biology professor and my boss at the museum both said that humans are losing teeth. Which is why quite a large number of people are born missing wisdom teeth. Natural selection at work I guess.
Natural selection only takes place if the trait in question is actually selected for or against, either by survival or mating practices. No one dies because they have wisdom teeth, and I have to say I have never heard of anyone counting a prospective mate's teeth before deciding to procreate with them.:)

However, they do that with horses.

Count the teeth, not procreate.
 
There have always been statistical outliers, but the average life expectancy dropped precipitously after the Agricultural Revolution, when Neolithic humans began subsisting on grains instead of meat and their civilized descendants became even less carnivorous. Skeletons dug up of the last of the hunter-gatherers show that the life expectancy of an adult who had survived childhood (no mean feat of course) was in the low fifties. By the Roman era it had dropped to the low twenties. Prosperity increased the meat in the diet and by the end of the 19th century life expectancy (of adults) in the USA was back up into the thirties. Antibiotics, asepsis and vaccinations reduced infant mortality, the discovery of vitamins and minerals gave everyone a healthier diet even if they insisted on eating too many vegetables, hospitals allowed more women to survive childbirth and automation allowed men to take jobs that were less life-threatening, so the life expectancy of adults has doubled, and the life expectancy at birth has more than tripled.

That's nice Fraggle, but despite all those advances in health care and medical science, the maximum life span hasn't changed in recorded history. The biological and physioloigcal factors for human lifespan have remained the same, despite changes in environmental factors.

Of course, when it comes to explaining selection, average life span is a much better metric than maxima.

And of course dentistry and fluoride have helped us all keep more of our teeth.:)Natural selection only takes place if the trait in question is actually selected for or against, either by survival or mating practices. No one dies because they have wisdom teeth, and I have to say I have never heard of anyone counting a prospective mate's teeth before deciding to procreate with them.:)

However, they do that with horses.

Count the teeth, not procreate.

I know you didn't say this, but if selection isn't acting on a trait, evolution can still occur there, and very often does. This is called drift, and is a product of a finite population. Hardy-Weinberg equilibrium exists if there is random mating and an infinite number of alleles to draw from, and no selection. However, neither of the former two assumptions are true outside of the model, especially for the patchy distribution of macro-fauna, like most mammals and birds. Because of this, you can still have changes in gene frequency (evolution) without any selection occurring.

This drift is taken advantage of with genetic fingerprinting, since there are regions of our genome that, as far as we know, aren't being used for anything. These regions used to be called junk DNA because they didn't code for a functional product, but much of that "junk" is actually active in other ways. These genomic regions that don't appear to be doing anything have high mutation rates, which, because the DNA doesn't code for anything or function in any way, don't affect the organism. Since these mutations occur at random, if you look at enough loci where random mutations occur, it is very unlikely that two people will have the exact same mutations.
 
That's nice Fraggle, but despite all those advances in health care and medical science, the maximum life span hasn't changed in recorded history.

That is debatable and we just don't know. If the oldest person is 122 now and 1000 years ago it was 105 that is still almost 20% increase, but I agree with Fraggle that those are statistical outliers, we should look at groups instead of individuals....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximum_life_span#In_humans

It would be better to look at the 10 or 50 oldest persons in a decade or century, and average their ages of death and see if there is a statistically valid difference...

The problem is that before the 18th century it is pretty much impossible to verify a person's both birhday and day of death, when the person is over 100 years old...

It could be argued though that people 1-2000 years ago geneticly were able to live just as long as now, but other circumstances shortened their lifes....

------------------------

I started a new thread with this topic here:

http://sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=90296

Since this is an interesting but offtopic here, please respond to it in its own thread...
 
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What selection, though?

I don't know. I was just listening to my academic superiors. My professor said he didn't know why either, but people have much fewer teeth than most mammals. For whatever reason nature seems to favor humans that have fewer teeth. Otherwise there wouldn't be so many people missing one or more wisdom teeth. It's rare that people are missing their incisors. I'm just speculating obviously, but it seems like there is some sort of selective pressure at work. Whether it's actually something physical or if it's just genetic drift...
 
...You have to remember that in the ancient days people didn't get as old as we get, not by far.

There have always been statistical outliers, but the average life expectancy dropped precipitously after the Agricultural Revolution, when Neolithic humans began subsisting on grains instead of meat and their civilized descendants became even less carnivorous. ....

I understand that Fraggle, but that's not what he said.
 
You mean drift?
Or selection against growing teeth because it's costly and unnecessary, so those who don't grow teeth have a slight energy advantage over those who don't?

Drift yea, and random mutation.

If they aren't being used there is no natural selection working to keep them in good shape, so they deteriorate.
 
What do you mean ? Like an extra set of molars in case you lost a few ?
Wisdom teeth are generally weak compared to normal molars. That's one of the reasons they are often extracted. They are pretty useless.
You have to remember that in the ancient days people didn't get as old as we get, not by far.

They got as old as we do. Just not as many of them. And I don't believe that wisdom teeth are weaker than other molars. That isn't the reason they are pulled.
They are pulled because they crowd teeth and our society values straight teeth.

No, they didn't get as old as we do.
And I said that it's one of the reasons.

yes they did! Just not in the quantities that we do.

That IS what I said. lol

where did you say that?
 
Jesus Christ Orleander..

"They didn't get as old as we do". "They" refers to the people that lived back then. Them, the people.. as a group.

:bugeye:

Uh-huh. :xctd:
Its your story, you can tell it any way you want I guess.
:rolleyes:
 
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