Why do people believe in god?

lightgigantic said:
and demanding that one knows before one knows is the reasonable platform to begin any sort of inquiry?
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Duh.

I am just pointing out a problem that regularly occurs when there is a decision to make between several options each of which proposes to be exclusive and absolute.

I did not invent religious diversity, so don't blame me for it or for pointing out that it exists.
 
Enmos said:
It is different for the subject of god. If god can only be studied from reading the book, how did the writers gather their information
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And why is it the case that the study can only be from books?
My take on that is, it isn't the case. Books are fine, but you should keep an open mind. Really what a lot of those books can tell you is that there's nothing much they can tell you. If you want God to exist, God exists. You can see this everywhere if you look at it that way.
 
arfa brane said:
And why is it the case that the study can only be from books?
My take on that is, it isn't the case. Books are fine, but you should keep an open mind. Really what a lot of those books can tell you is that there's nothing much they can tell you.
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How do you know you are indeed studying about God?
How do you know that that which some books or people claim to be about God, really is about God?


If you want God to exist, God exists. You can see this everywhere if you look at it that way.
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How is this any different from delusion?
 
Signal said:
How is this any different from delusion?
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How do you know you aren't in the Matrix? How do you know that everything you see isn't being projected onto your vision, everything you hear isn't a recording, and so on?

You know you're awake, and you know you inhabit a body, right? But how do you verify it? What can a brain scan tell you, if you accept for the time being that brain scanners are real and not part of the big prerecorded movie you think is your life?
 
Enmos said:
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The practitioners get their information from those books.
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the practitioners of religion get their information from their books..

It is different for the subject of god. If god can only be studied from reading the book
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and from testimonies.

how did the writers gather their information?
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experience.

It's like saying that physics can only be learned from a book.
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it is true that physics can be learned else ways, but most ppl DO learn physics from books..

Your mean fantasy or delusion.
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opinion,uncalled for.

There is no evidence for any of it.
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testimonies are evidence.

Not the same as science.
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true. so quit trying to hold religion to the same standards as science.

You can study evidence where there is evidence, not where there is none.
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testimonies..

How do you know that that which some books or people claim to be about God, really is about God?
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personal experience.
 
Question was: "How do you know that some books or what people claim to be about God, really are about God?
Reply was:
NMSquirrel said:
...personal experience.
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That seems to be universally true but that experience is part of a group dynamic (dare I say "mob psychology").

I.e. Most believers in the Christian Bible's teaching grew up in a Christian culture. Likewise, believers of the Torah as correct, grew up in a Jewish culture, And so it goes for dozens of other conflicting beliefs about the nature of God, heaven /hell, reincarnation, martyrdom's benefits, morals, etc.

None have any distinguishing reason to think their version is correct. Do you agree? If not, why not?

More specifically why do you think your version is more accurate about the nature of God and what happens after death than more than a dozen others that disagree with it? All "study God" - Some Jews do nothing else all day long! As do many Asian monks.
 
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You can not study God .When you read a word the meaning of that word is nothing but projection of your experience.We can not understand anything unless we experience it.We can not trap God in words.Only way to know God is to experience him.We can not stand out side and explore him.we are also a fragment of God.We should lose ourselve and become one with all .Our ego should expand and include everything.This is the wisdom of eastern world.
 
Billy T said:
None have any distinguishing reason to think their version is correct. Do you agree? If not, why not?

More specifically why do you think your version is more accurate about the nature of God and what happens after death than more than a dozen others that disagree with it? All "study God" - Some Jews do nothing else all day long! As do many Asian monks.
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this is a case of wanting someone to tell you how/what to believe.
IOW I believe no single religion has the ultimate answer, this does not mean you do not get credit for following a specific religion (subjective to scrutiny)

some common denominators among different religions;(subjective to my own limited study of different religions)
more attention on God,less on worldly things,
taking care of less fortunate,
moderation in our moral lives.
life after death.

science likes to say "X is true %100 of the time"
religion is not like that..although there is a predisposition of religion to claim "X is true %100 of the time", i believe this to be a condition of Mans scrutiny of religion, IE followers are asking religion to tell them what to do, and as man is fallible, the ppl in charge are more than happy to say "X is true %100 of the time"
my study has not come up with any data that says that "X is true %100 of the time"
the accuracy comes down to how it applies to your life, one size does not fit all.
 
NMSquirrel said:
this is a case of wanting someone to tell you how/what to believe.
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No, it's a case of refusing to simply go with what might well be a delusion.


more attention on God,less on worldly things,
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"Focus on God" without religion is sentimentality.


IE followers are asking religion to tell them what to do,
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This is your projection.


and as man is fallible, the ppl in charge are more than happy to say "X is true %100 of the time"
my study has not come up with any data that says that "X is true %100 of the time"
the accuracy comes down to how it applies to your life, one size does not fit all.
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Which is, why, eventually, anything goes, eh?
 
Signal said:
This is your projection.
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more of a supposition..

i think of the pastors role in the church, what he see's, how he acts/reacts.

I have seen ppl line up to talk with the pastor to get his advice on various issues,(it bugs me that the majority of ppl in my church will go to the pastors class,leaving the rest of the bible study classes with few ppl) and the expectation is that the pastor HAS TO give the correct advice otherwise he would not be as pastor very long, and that is subjective to how the ppl apply that advice to their lives.

this has got to do something to a pastors Ego and arrogance, after all he is human also..

there is a self feeding dynamic involved in a pastoral role, that corrupts the initial intention of a pastors desire for ministering to the masses.

he has to be perfect, yet still he is human and as such is not perfect..

I would like to be a pastor,but it is this reasoning that prevents me from becoming a pastor..
I would not be able to be a pastor and still maintain that i am just as screwed up as the rest of the world..
 
NMSquirrel said:
this is a case of wanting someone to tell you how/what to believe. ...
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Not for me is it. I (like you it seems) am of opinion they do not know which of their conflicting ideas is correct (For example believers in re-incarnation deny that after death you get "eternal life" in Heaven or Hell.) Thus, what they say is of no interest to me - I DON'T desire to be told "how/what to believe." I prefer to admit my ignorance, remain an agnostic.
NMSquirrel said:
IOW I believe no single religion has the ultimate answer, this does not mean you do not get credit for following a specific religion ...
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This "get credit" for being "moral" should have been at the top of your list of common features of all religions (I think it is the ONLY idea ALL share.) It is a socially useful idea, so civil societies encourage it too. They do so so well that almost all atheists behave "morally" even when they can get away and profit by being "immoral."

I.e. when young you are taught what is "right" and what is "wrong" by your societies standards, which slowly evolve. Fucking some of your female slaves was once moral - Thomas Jefferson frequently did that and fathered a few bastards as modern genetic tests on some claiming to be his descendents have proven. I think it psychologically healthy not to mess too much with these early ingrained concepts.

For example, if I find a billfold with cash in it, I'll call the owner but I have been able to warp this "do not steal" concept. I do not point out to a grocery store checkout clerk errors that favor me (only those that over charging me.) - I easily rationalizing the guilt away with: "The company planned on having some errors, bottles broken in the isles of shelfs, etc. in their cost of other goods." It does not even seem like stealing to me - just helping their expectation to be true. :D

But now to come to my main point: It is only an assumption that God wants you to be "moral" instead of getting all you can for number one when there is no danger of civil punishment. Perhaps God wants the company of those who can think for themselves in Heaven, not those who just do what they are told to. I.e. maybe only the careful (un-caught) crooks and self indulgent exploiters of others go to live eternally with God in heaven.

Eternity is a long time. Do you really think God wants only "Yes I do and believe as you say" men instead of interesting, creative souls, who can think for themselves there for companions? I.e. Perhaps the one thing about God all religions agree on (be moral) may be exactly wrong!
 
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Signal said:
Duh.

I am just pointing out a problem that regularly occurs when there is a decision to make between several options each of which proposes to be exclusive and absolute.
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and there's your problem - they don't all propose to be exclusive and absolute - in fact many of them talk of a sliding scale of application.
edit : maybe you could try starting here
 
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