Why do people believe in god?

[gmilam]

Yes, thanks for pointing that out.

So, are you an atheist, and if so, what do you believe? Or is it the case that you lack belief so you can't really say?

Do you believe you can say that people who believe there is a god might be mistaken? If you lack belief, how is it that you manage to form this opinion, or have I got it wrong, you don't have an opinion either?

I "believe" there are many unanswered questions. I also "believe" that the concept of "god" raises many more questions than it answers.

My standard response when someone asks me if I believe in god is to ask them to define the word. Most people reply with something like, "You know - GOD!". As if putting emphasis on the word is a definition.

 

[arfa brane]

My standard response when someone asks me if I believe in god is to ask them to define the word.

Has anyone ever asked you if you believe there is a God?

 

[SciWriter]

God would be the First and Fundamental creative entity who made the universe to be exactly how it is, by specific design of its certain characteristics; however, that cannot be, since complexity must come later, not first, for it is dependent on its make-up.

 

[gmilam]

Has anyone ever asked you if you believe there is a God?

That's how I intepret the question "Do you believe in god?" so - yes.

I'll spare you my usual response and actually answer... No, I do not believe in an athropomorphic father figure who loves us and has a plan for our eternal salvation. I find the idea incredibly improbable to the point of ludicrous.

If you're willing to accept the concept of the universe and god being one and the same. Then, of course, the universe obviously exists. This raises the question "Is the universe alive and conscious?". I can't answer that except to say I am alive and conscious and I am a small part of the universe.

 

[arfa brane]

That's how I intepret the question "Do you believe in god?" so - yes.

How would you interpret the question "Do you believe in the solar system?", or "Do you believe in elephants?" ?

 

[gmilam]

How would you interpret the question "Do you believe in the solar system?", or "Do you believe in elephants?" ?

I KNOW there is a solar system, and I KNOW there are elephants.

I don't see your distinction between "do I believe in god" and "do I believe there is a god". Sounds like the same question to me.

 

[arfa brane]

I don't see your distinction between "do I believe in god" and "do I believe there is a god".

But you have no problem seeing a distinction between believing there is a solar system or elephants, and believing "in" those things.

Why is that?

 

[gmilam]

But you have no problem seeing a distinction between believing there is a solar system or elephants, and believing "in" those things.

Why is that?

I KNOW there is a solar system - I've seen elephants. No belief required. :shrug:
I don't understand your point...

 

[arfa brane]

I don't understand your point...

But you do understand that the question about believing in God means, at least to you, that the question is about believing if God exists.

And you understand at the same time that believing in elephants doesn't mean the same as believing elephants exist. You're able to make this distinction because you know elephants exist. You don't know God exists, but you must know that other people believe this, however to you there is no distinction.

So it isn't really surprising that you don't understand what my point is, then.

 

[Dywyddyr]

But you do understand that the question about believing in God means, at least to you, that the question is about believing if God exists.

And you understand at the same time that believing in elephants doesn't mean the same as believing elephants exist. You're able to make this distinction because you know elephants exist. You don't know God exists, but you must know that other people believe this, however to you there is no distinction.

So it isn't really surprising that you don't understand what my point is, then.

No, the problem here that those who say they "believe in god" actually *mean* they believe "god exists".
They cannot believe IN god unless he does exist.

 

[arfa brane]

No, the problem here that those who say they "believe in god" actually *mean* they believe "god exists".

What if instead they say they believe God exists, and they don't say they believe in God?

Like gmilam says he believes elephants exist because, well, because he knows elephants exist. So if someone says they believe God exists do they mean they know God exists?

Talk about labouring the point. But here we are, then.
Oh, and just one more detail:

I KNOW there is a solar system - I've seen elephants. No belief required.

Are you saying that knowing something exists means you don't need to believe it exists?? Really?

 

[Dywyddyr]

They cannot believe IN god unless he does exist.

Hmm, my mistake, it seems.

–verb (used without object)
1.
to have confidence in the truth, the existence, or the reliability of something, although without absolute proof that one is right in doing so: Only if one believes in something can one act purposefully.

- snip -
—Verb phrase
6.
believe in,
a.
to be persuaded of the truth or existence of: to believe in Zoroastrianism; to believe in ghosts.
b.
to have faith in the reliability, honesty, benevolence, etc., of: I can help only if you believe in me.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/believe

They're effectively synonymous.
Ah well, live and learn.

I believe in god = I believe god exists.

Edit:

So if someone says they believe God exists do they mean they know God exists?

Not at all. Belief is not knowledge.

 

[arfa brane]

If someone says they know God exists, and that's why they believe God exists, what do you think they mean?

And yes, I think "believe in" is a way to imply something else. For instance "if you believe in me" probably means: "if you believe in my good intentions". "Believe in God" probably means: "believe in the existence of God", but could also mean "believe in God's good intentions". It's a way to leave some blanks you can fill in, or imply something which remains unstated.

How about "do you believe you should believe in things, or just know about them?"

 

[Dywyddyr]

If someone says they know God exists, and that's why they believe God exists, what do you think they mean?

That they've convinced themselves that their belief has a factual basis.

If one is claiming knowledge then the subject of that claim must be true (among other things).
If it were factual and true that god exists how come the evidence isn't widely available?
Why isn't that fact available for others to check?

 

[arfa brane]

If one is claiming knowledge then the subject of that claim must be true (among other things).

Do you mean: it must be true for the claimant?

If it were factual and true that god exists how come the evidence isn't widely available?
Why isn't that fact available for others to check?

Why do you believe it isn't widely available, or that others can't check "that fact"?

 

[Dywyddyr]

Do you mean: it must be true for the claimant?

No. If something is true it's true. If it's only "true" for the claimant and not others then it's not true.

Why do you believe it isn't widely available, or that others can't check "that fact"?

Are you claiming that we have such evidence available for checking?
This is news indeed.

 

[arfa brane]

No. If something is true it's true. If it's only "true" for the claimant and not others then it's not true.

So if I claim I'm a millionaire and this isn't true for others, then it's "not true"??

Are you claiming that we have such evidence available for checking?
This is news indeed.

Yeah, but I don't think it's very recent news, though. Actually it goes back a ways.

You said: "Belief is not knowledge", but if you know you're a millionaire, surely you would believe it as well? Or using a more fundamantal example: do you know anyone who knows they have a job, and doesn't believe it? Or who knows they own a car, and doesn't believe they own a car?

 

[Dywyddyr]

So if I claim I'm a millionaire and this isn't true for others, then it's "not true"??

Oops, error.
If you claim that YOU are a millionaire then this is a verifiable claim (fact) and others will agree that YOU are a millionaire.
If you claim that it is true (i.e. a fact) that god exists and that fact is not verifiable as such then it is not true. For anyone.
You're comparing apples and oranges.

Yeah, but I don't think it's very recent news, though. Actually it goes back a ways.

Oh, so you're claiming post-dated "eyewitness" accounts (about someone who probably never actually existed) are reliable evidence? (Presuming you're making a reference to the bible).
A book that claims it's true because god dictated it and god exists and is honest because that book says so?

I wish you wouldn't do that!

You said: "Belief is not knowledge", but if you know you're a millionaire, surely you would believe it as well? Or using a more fundamantal example: do you know anyone who knows they have a job, and doesn't believe it? Or who knows they own a car, and doesn't believe they own a car?

Knowledge includes belief, but belief on its own is not knowledge.
Knowledge is, at its simplest, a justified, true belief.
Belief on its own may or may not be true (or even justified).

 

[arfa brane]

If you claim that it is true (i.e. a fact) that god exists and that fact is not verifiable as such then it is not true. For anyone.

Interesting.
Do you believe that's true, or do you know it's true? The existence of God is not verifiable "as such" for anyone?

 

[Dywyddyr]

Interesting.
Do you believe that's true, or do you know it's true? The existence of God is not verifiable "as such" for anyone?

If it were truly verifiable we'd have done so, announced it and made it part of science.
What "evidence" we have (or is claimed to be available) is not subject to such verification.