kx000
Valued Senior Member
There is no choice in gods. If you pray to a god to make your wheat grow, you might be alone.
Why do people believe in god?
- Thread starter LuckAse
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There is no choice in gods. If you pray to a god to make your wheat grow, you might be alone.
The way you state your question is in itself problematic, as you know. Apart from the fact that there is no consistent definition of the concept of "god", "believing in god" is a typical Western rational mind construct. This/that, black/white, atheist/believer, we require everything to be understood through dualistic thinking, because that is how we have learned to engineer our environment, to be safe.
The more useful question is whether you are experiencing or perceiving god, not whether you "believe in" god. It's the same as asking whether I "believe" that there will be a sunrise tomorrow. Both questions are equally abstract and unanswerable. It's all rumors.
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M*W: All babies are natural born atheists. The idea of a god is put there by the people who raise the child. They tell the child to "pray and ask God," but no god ever answers them, because there is no god.
kx000
Valued Senior Member
God answers me
No they aren't. Newborns have no idea what an atheist is.Medicine* Woman said:
Newborn humans probably don't even have ideas, as such.
Right, eventually a child hears about this "god" idea, from adults usually, or other children who have heard about it.
Do all adults tell children to "pray and ask god"? So, if they try this and there's no reply, is that child able to form the idea "there is no god", or does that require an adult to explain it?
In either case, why should a child believe the adult? What if they get told "you will have to find out if there is a god all by yourself, whereas I haven't managed to yet"?
Therefore they lack belief in god (and much else).
Lack of belief in god = atheism.
One of the things they lack, I think you mean, is the ability to form any belief or rational thought.Dywyddr said:
Lack of ability to believe anything is not atheism. Lack of ability to rationally consider what atheism is isn't atheism either. The argument is a strawman, in fact.
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Lack of belief is atheism.
Need one be rational about lack of belief to lack that belief?
Need one be aware of atheism per se to be an atheist (i.e. lack belief)?
As the child grows up they have to be introduced to the concept of god, which indicates that belief it isn't a natural occurrence.
Need one be rational about lack of belief to lack that belief?
Need one be aware of atheism per se to be an atheist (i.e. lack belief)?
As the child grows up they have to be introduced to the concept of god, which indicates that belief it isn't a natural occurrence.
The argument is specious.
Need one be able to claim they're an atheist to demonstrate they are? Or can people tell "that guy is an atheist", without asking them; without anything being said?
How many 6 month old infants explain their atheist beliefs to adults? Or do they just have to "act like" atheists?
How many adults prefer to assume that infants are atheists, with absolutely no evidence to support the assumption?
I don't think the argument stands up, for the simple reason there is no way to study "the evidence". But I notice how adults like to assume a lot of things. Perhaps it makes them feel warm and fuzzy?
Need one be able to claim they're an atheist to demonstrate they are? Or can people tell "that guy is an atheist", without asking them; without anything being said?
How many 6 month old infants explain their atheist beliefs to adults? Or do they just have to "act like" atheists?
How many adults prefer to assume that infants are atheists, with absolutely no evidence to support the assumption?
I don't think the argument stands up, for the simple reason there is no way to study "the evidence". But I notice how adults like to assume a lot of things. Perhaps it makes them feel warm and fuzzy?
In other words you're supporting my argument.
It probably never occurs to the adult to ask the child at any age before dragging them off to Sunday School.
No I'm not. I'm saying you don't have an argument. An argument usually requires evidence to back it up, and there isn't any.Dwyddyr said:
Unless you can post a link to a study of atheist attitudes in children below, say, the age of two years, I claim that you have no evidence, what you have is supposition.
the label "atheist" is usually used as an identifier, not as a state of being.
there is no thought process like "i don't believe in God therefore i am an atheist"
it is more like "i do not believe in God." the label comes from others to communicate.
it is not a club one can join.
it is not a lifestyle.
it is not a group of ppl.
it is just a label.
(same statement applies to believers.)
there is no thought process like "i don't believe in God therefore i am an atheist"
it is more like "i do not believe in God." the label comes from others to communicate.
it is not a club one can join.
it is not a lifestyle.
it is not a group of ppl.
it is just a label.
(same statement applies to believers.)
I'm more interested in whether your line of reasoning can be followed by human infants.Dywddyr said:
Have you personally studied newborn babies and how did you reach the conclusion that they must all be atheists? Did you ask them, or did you listen to their discussions with each other? Is it because they don't show any desire to pray or go to church, perhaps?
Do they need to follow a line of reasoning to have no belief in god?
I see, so your claim is that a baby doesn't know what an atheist is, but they do know about god?
kx000
Valued Senior Member
Assumption. Atheism is a choice, the baby did not choose to lack belief in God.
i would argue in this discussions context, that atheism is a default.
it would only be a choice if one were a believer and chose not to be.
doesn't work as a choice if they never believed in the first place.
False.
Small children love fairey tales better than logical analysis. The idea of Santa Claus or a talking rabbit are naturally absorbed. If you start to get linear or logical the child will tire faster. This suggests the foundation of theism is natural and atheism is learned during socialization.
As an experiment, put a cartoon on one TV with animals talking and a lecture by Dawkins on another TV. Then, using many groups, as function of age, make note what percent watch each TV.
As an experiment, put a cartoon on one TV with animals talking and a lecture by Dawkins on another TV. Then, using many groups, as function of age, make note what percent watch each TV.
I would be the kid who finds the remote..