Why do christians reject John Smith?

S

SpyMoose

Secret double agent deer
Registered Senior Member
The book of mormon clearly tells how after his resurection Jesus came to America, and left behind new tablets of commandmants to be found by John Smith, who subsequently lost them, but he DID write them down (words from god after all, of course he would have a backup). John Smith started the mormon religion, now the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints.

My question is why does mainstream christianity refuse to accept John Smith as the prophet of the lord and savior Jesus Christ?



Note: yes you may interpret this as a satire on the thread about why do jews refuse to accept jesus.
 
First of all, Joseph Smith was disenchanted with religion early in his life, and it is possible that he simply created a religion that he could be satisfied with. He was supposedly given the golden tablets by the angel Moroni. We are asked to believe that Moroni also took the tablets back when Smith's enemies attempted to steal them. Other elements of Smith's history, such as the "special glasses" he had to use to read the divine tablets, are debatable and just plain silly.

The culture of the Mormons during their trek to Utah was tribal and often brutal. Joseph Smith had his "bodyguard" Orrin Porter Rockwell kill quite a few people. Rockwell was in actuality little more than a church assassin. Brigham Young also had similar henchmen. Furthermore, the Mormons during this era were also polygamists. Not very credible people.

Why should we Christians believe or even respect the claims of this false prophet?
 
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I can back all this up with credible sources, and the very books mormons study, so I'm not afraid to say it.

Joseph Smith is a complete idiot. He said that there are 1000 year old men living on the moon who dress like quakers. (I have the source for this at home - I'm at the library now).

Joseph Smith said that he did more then Jesus for the church.

The mormon religion is racist. They believe that all black people were evil in the pre-existence (a made up place) and thus made black, and that they turn white when they are converted.

Mormons teach secret handshakes that you need to do to get into higher levels of heaven when they die.

I can keep going but I think this is enough for now.

In conclution I'd just like to say, Mormonism is stupid, Joseph Smith is at this present time burning in hell. And all mormons will as well, because they believe in a false Jesus (apparantly who is Satans spirit brother), a false God (who apparantly used to be a man on another planet), and are totally blind!

Mormons will say that I'm just an anti-mormon, I'd have to agree, but that doesn't mean that I'm a wrong anti-mormon. Christianity is the truth, mormonism is a cult!!!!!!!
 
The book of Mormon has large sections copied from the KJV along with mistakes in the KJV. Worst they had considerable changes to what Joseph taught. For example, blacks were not allowed to be temple priest, now they are.
 
So if mormons are a dangerous wrong minded cult, then why did god give them the olympics? Or maybe satan awards the olympics, after all was started to celebrate filthy pagan greek gods who were no doubt satan in a clever wig.
 
Originally posted by Cernunnos
First of all, Joseph Smith was disenchanted with religion early in his life, and it is possible that he simply created a religion that he could be satisfied with. He was supposedly given the golden tablets by the angel Moroni. We are asked to believe that Moroni also took the tablets back when Smith's enemies attempted to steal them. Other elements of Smith's history, such as the "special glasses" he had to use to read the divine tablets, are debatable and just plain silly.

The culture of the Mormons during their trek to Utah was tribal and often brutal. Joseph Smith had his "bodyguard" Orrin Porter Rockwell kill quite a few people. Rockwell was in actuality little more than a church assassin. Brigham Young also had similar henchmen. Furthermore, the Mormons during this era were also polygamists. Not very credible people.

Why should we Christians believe or even respect the claims of this false prophet?
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I don't know, you seem to accept Moses and a lot of other prophets with at least equally shady backgrounds. What's so heinous about Smith compared to, say, Elijah?
 
Originally posted by drnihili
I don't know, you seem to accept Moses and a lot of other prophets with at least equally shady backgrounds. What's so heinous about Smith compared to, say, Elijah?
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well thats really the core of it right there isnt it? if a lot of people say its so then it is. if only some folks who i hear a lot of bad things about say it then it isnt. Right? Who needs evedence or reasons to believe things, when EVERYONE says it.
 
Originally posted by Cernunnos
First of all, Joseph Smith was disenchanted with religion early in his life, and it is possible that he simply created a religion that he could be satisfied with.
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Why could the same not be said about Jesus? The man didn't like the Jews too much, and it sounds to me as though he and his apostles (or possie) got off on busting up Jewish temples and acting all holier than thou.
 
Originally posted by Cris

For once I give credit to Christianity for not accepting this incredible gibberish.
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The only difference between Mormonism and regular Christianity (in any of it's flavors) is a long history of believing. And certainly just because they've all been fooled for longer doesn't mean that they are any more right. To say that Mormon beliefs are any less credible is just bigotry and discrimination. It's the same fucking thing.
 
No its not. Their own beliefs contradict themselves. They believe in the whole KJV bible, but also the book of mormon. However the Isaiah says that God is one and there is no other besides God, but they believe that they can become gods. And the entire theory that the Church fell into disbelief is wrong because Jesus says that his church will prevail against the gates of hell.

http://atheism.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://www.lds-mormon.com/campbell.shtml

http://atheism.about.com/gi/dynamic...org/library/modern/curt_heuvel/bom_bible.html
 
If we want to get into a contradiction contest, the bible contradicts itself pretty plainly. But let's not go there. For every contradiction pointed out, believers have a response. The same is true of mormons. From what I've seen in the links, the responses are even pretty easy. Mormons have some weird beliefs. But certainly nothing much weirder than transubstantiation.

I can understand other christians not wanting to believe Smith's teaching. A lot of christians don't accept the pope either. Internecine conflicts are expected in religion. WHat I don't understand is the vehemence that mormons don't even count as christians. That's absurd on the face of it. Anything that can be said against the mormons can pretty much be said against the catholics. And claiming that catholics aren't christian would stretch the meaning of "christian" to the breaking point.
 
Mormons have some weird beliefs. But certainly nothing much weirder than transubstantiation.
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What can be simpler than "This is my body".

I can understand other christians not wanting to believe Smith's teaching. A lot of christians don't accept the pope either. Internecine conflicts are expected in religion. WHat I don't understand is the vehemence that mormons don't even count as christians. That's absurd on the face of it. Anything that can be said against the mormons can pretty much be said against the catholics. And claiming that catholics aren't christian would stretch the meaning of "christian" to the breaking point.
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They believe in multiple gods and so are pagan by most defintions.
 
Originally posted by okinrus
They believe in multiple gods and so are pagan by most defintions.
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Are you presuming that pagan and christian are mutually exclusive categories? If so, why?

Also you've somewhat misrepresented mormon doctrine. They have no other gods beyond the trinity. If the mere acknowlegement of the existence of other gods is sufficient to classify someone as non-christian, then most of the writers of the old testament must qualify as pagan. Even the commandment "Thou shalt no other gods before me", admits the possibility of other gods, it merely prohibits worshipping them. We could also go into the use of plurals in the original Herbrew, but that might be a bit recondite for the moment.
 
Are you presuming that pagan and christian are mutually exclusive categories? If so, why?
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From Webster
1 : HEATHEN 1; especially : a follower of a polytheistic religion (as in ancient Rome)

Also you've somewhat misrepresented mormon doctrine. They have no other gods beyond the trinity. If the mere acknowlegement of the existence of other gods is sufficient to classify someone as non-christian, then most of the writers of the old testament must qualify as pagan. Even the commandment "Thou shalt no other gods before me", admits the possibility of other gods, it merely prohibits worshipping them. We could also go into the use of plurals in the original Herbrew, but that might be a bit recondite for the moment.
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Number one, they believe in three seperate gods of the trinity. Worshiping three gods, contradicts the 1st commandment and Isaiah 44:6 "Thus says the LORD, Israel's King and redeemer, the LORD of hosts: I am the first and I am the last; there is no God but me. Who is like me? Let him stand up and speak, make it evident, and confront me with it." They distort scripture to their own destruction. For John says that we will be like Christ in our resurrection, but he does not mean that we will be like gods but that we will be in God's glory and presence. Worst of all they sell their beliefs to immigrants and non-christians. They distort, lie, and cover up. http://www.catholic.com/search.asp?searchType=file&target=mormon
 
Originally posted by okinrus
From Webster
1 : HEATHEN 1; especially : a follower of a polytheistic religion (as in ancient Rome)
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Yes, yes, I understand that you're using pagan to mean something like polytheist. That's not the point. WHy can't a christian be a polytheist? I understand that you believe that god has commanded against polytheism, but surely you don't think that anyone who breaks one of the ten commandments no longer qualifies as a christian.

My question isn't, why are they not the one true church? It's why don't they get to be in the christian camp along with all the other people you cosider to be heretics?


Number one, they believe in three seperate gods of the trinity. Worshiping three gods, contradicts the 1st commandment and Isaiah 44:6 "Thus says the LORD, Israel's King and redeemer, the LORD of hosts: I am the first and I am the last; there is no God but me. Who is like me? Let him stand up and speak, make it evident, and confront me with it." They distort scripture to their own destruction. For John says that we will be like Christ in our resurrection, but he does not mean that we will be like gods but that we will be in God's glory and presence. Worst of all they sell their beliefs to immigrants and non-christians. They distort, lie, and cover up. http://www.catholic.com/search.asp?searchType=file&target=mormon
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Oh, catholic.com, now there's a site that's likely to present an unbiased view of mormonism. Do you suppose we ought go to mormon.com in order to find out what the catholics are really like? So let's stop the mindless mudslinging and get down to answering the question.

Buddhists aren't christian, because they don't profess a belief in christ or a belief in the bible. The same goes for Jews, muslims, hindus etc. But mormons do profess a belief in christ and they do profess a belief in the bible. Certainly they interpret the bible differently than other churches, but every church has it's idiosyncratic interpretation. Yes they have other scriptures, but other christian sects also dispute the canon. I understand you disagree with their doctrine, that's not the point. I even understand you think they're a bunch of evil bastards, again that's not the point. WHy do they not count as christian?
 
Yes, yes, I understand that you're using pagan to mean something like polytheist. That's not the point. WHy can't a christian be a polytheist? I understand that you believe that god has commanded against polytheism, but surely you don't think that anyone who breaks one of the ten commandments no longer qualifies as a christian.

My question isn't, why are they not the one true church? It's why don't they get to be in the christian camp along with all the other people you cosider to be heretics?
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I do not consider all protestants heretics because you have to be Catholic and then convert to whatever. Catholics have more in common with muslims than mormons. To be christian you have to accept the Apostle's creed.

Oh, catholic.com, now there's a site that's likely to present an unbiased view of mormonism. Do you suppose we ought go to mormon.com in order to find out what the catholics are really like? So let's stop the mindless mudslinging and get down to answering the question.
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I did go to mormon.com. There is little in the way of doctrinal value in that sight. In fact that is why I say they cover up their belief in the plurity of gods.

Buddhists aren't christian, because they don't profess a belief in christ or a belief in the bible. The same goes for Jews, muslims, hindus etc. But mormons do profess a belief in christ and they do profess a belief in the bible. Certainly they interpret the bible differently than other churches, but every church has it's idiosyncratic interpretation. Yes they have other scriptures, but other christian sects also dispute the canon. I understand you disagree with their doctrine, that's not the point. I even understand you think they're a bunch of evil bastards, again that's not the point. WHy do they not count as christian?
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I'm not sure what you mean. The early christians did not believe in the bible because it was not put together yet. Anyways mormons cannot accept Christ as a savior since Isaiah also says "God is your only savior". Now where did I say that they were 'evil'? All I said was that they distort scripture. If they are truly ignorant of this, then they are not evil. But if they are not ignorant, then their actions are evil.
 
Originally posted by okinrus
To be christian you have to accept the Apostle's creed.
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Ok, I had a look at that. Nothing objectionable to mormons there, with the possible exception of how one should interpret "communion of the saints".


I'm not sure what you mean. The early christians did not believe in the bible because it was not put together yet. Anyways mormons cannot accept Christ as a savior since Isaiah also says "God is your only savior". Now where did I say that they were 'evil'? All I said was that they distort scripture. If they are truly ignorant of this, then they are not evil. But if they are not ignorant, then their actions are evil.
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I'm sorry but I'm not following how the quote from Isaiah is relevant. As for where you said they were evil, you said the "distort, lie, and cover up". THose are pretty strong words, especially in the context you put them. The fact that you put "lie" in there shows that you meant they intentionally misrepresent things. If you're uncomfortable with the accusation, then apologize and retract it, but don't go pretending you didn't make it. For my part I'll happily admit that the leap from "distort, lie, and cover up" to "evil bastards" was entirely my own.
 
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