What do you mean they aren't? What is the cause of energy, light, gravity, etc...then?
According to Jesus, in the beginning the light came into being by itself...
Why do atheists hate Jesus?
- Thread starter John J. Bannan
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What do you mean they aren't? What is the cause of energy, light, gravity, etc...then?
According to Jesus, in the beginning the light came into being by itself...
It's a fundamental law of physics that matter cannot be created or destroyed. So VitalOne has a point; doesn't that make it eternal? Currently, science shrugs it's shoulders and continues searching.
This argument, however, is resolved in my previous post.
The cause of light is photons, the cause of gravity is mass. The exact cause for their being is unknown, but that doesn't mean there isn't one. To be sure, scientists are not satisfied with not knowing.
No, because all physical laws break down as you go back in time to the Big Bang.
thats why i always say that existence and the universe is infinite and had no start. because its logical.
that is illogical, i could explain anything with that concept. "oh physical laws were different back then"
if the laws of physics were different then you dont even need to explain things with the big bang, because you dont need to explain things like radiation backgrounds and redshift within the laws of todays physics. you can just say "well the laws of physics were different, so it just happened that way.
its weak in my opinion, and an infinite universe is much more logical. but do you know what?. people dont like easy answers. they like things to be complicated because people love a good mystery.
anyway this is a religion thread. i will stop getting scientific.
praise allah.
peace/
Interesting.
Interesting.
thats why i always say that existence and the universe is infinite and had no start. because its logical.
I think it had a beginning, but it is also infinite. It had a beginning, but there was no time it didn't exist.
that is illogical, i could explain anything with that concept. "oh physical laws were different back then"
I would say, like any physicist, that our understanding of the early stages of the Big Bang are incomplete. I agree there is, as yet, no logical explanation for this period of history.
if the laws of physics were different then you dont even need to explain things with the big bang, because you dont need to explain things like radiation backgrounds and redshift within the laws of todays physics. you can just say "well the laws of physics were different, so it just happened that way.
I didn't say they were different, there simply are no laws that explain it. Radiation backrounds and redshift happened at a time we do understand to a much greater degree.
its weak in my opinion, and an infinite universe is much more logical. but do you know what?. people dont like easy answers. they like things to be complicated because people love a good mystery.
anyway this is a religion thread. i will stop getting scientific.
praise allah.
peace
That's not true. Physicists like easy answers but haven't been able to find them.
I think it had a beginning, but it is also infinite. It had a beginning, but there was no time it didn't exist.
that is illogical, i could explain anything with that concept. "oh physical laws were different back then"
I would say, like any physicist, that our understanding of the early stages of the Big Bang are incomplete. I agree there is, as yet, no logical explanation for this period of history.
if the laws of physics were different then you dont even need to explain things with the big bang, because you dont need to explain things like radiation backgrounds and redshift within the laws of todays physics. you can just say "well the laws of physics were different, so it just happened that way.
I didn't say they were different, there simply are no laws that explain it. Radiation backrounds and redshift happened at a time we do understand to a much greater degree.
its weak in my opinion, and an infinite universe is much more logical. but do you know what?. people dont like easy answers. they like things to be complicated because people love a good mystery.
anyway this is a religion thread. i will stop getting scientific.
praise allah.
peace
That's not true. Physicists like easy answers but haven't been able to find them.
But the laws of physics are what we have to work with...
It's like Newtonian physics works fine for most occasions, but if we used it to plot the course of spaceships, it wouldn't work. Our present understanding only works back to a certain point.
damnit i dislike when people post like this its awkward to reply to. damn you goat why? :shrug:
we dont fully understand background radiation and redshift. its all a model or at best a theory. i have never been a fan of the big bang theory as the start of time and space, it just doesent sit right with me no matter what angle i view it from,
we will never have conclusive proof showing the start of the universe or "before the bang" because it doesent exist.
i can give everyone an easy answer. the universe had no start, there is not a start of time or space, because both have always existed,
peace.
Even a circle has a start, you talk about logic? name one thing that does not have a start...a beginning.
thats not the same. because we are talking about the actual laws of all physics. not the difference between in space and on earth.
obviously if you throw a coin in space it will have different effects to throwing one down the street.
you cant break down the laws of physics to fit a theory.
peace,
a circle is not the universe. your example is just like saying a square has a start. and i agree it does.
the universe is infinite and had no start there is 1 thing. you honestly think something can be born from nothing? that is illogical. you cannot have nothing that one day just turns into something. an effect has a cause, wich would equal in a cycle thats ever lasting, therefore still infinite.
peace.
let me put it another way for everybody. i will tackle the science with the religious at the same time.
firstly science. you see energy cannot be created only transformed yes? we all agree on that. that would conclude that energy has always existed in some form, yet it has only gone through change and transformation for infinity. wich tells us what? that for energy to exist it needs a universe. therefore the universe is infinite.
religion. you see god? he created the universe yes? but you see god is the universe and the creator (energy) cannot be created. therefore god (the universe) is infinite.
peace.
firstly science. you see energy cannot be created only transformed yes? we all agree on that. that would conclude that energy has always existed in some form, yet it has only gone through change and transformation for infinity. wich tells us what? that for energy to exist it needs a universe. therefore the universe is infinite.
religion. you see god? he created the universe yes? but you see god is the universe and the creator (energy) cannot be created. therefore god (the universe) is infinite.
peace.
We are talking about the laws of nature, maybe you do not understand them as much as you think you do.
Tell that to an Atheist.
what laws are these? i understand existence just fine. and i am trying to explain it to everybody and always have tried to,
i am, read my above post.
peace.
Go into any European church and you will find a white European Jesus on the altar. In Christianity Jesus is God.
As soon as those cultures have something America wants that all changes. That's abundantly clear from the War on Islam since America decided to take 'its' oil from the Middle East.
That's also why American Indians still live on reservations.
Religion is a Western concept - it is a fiction just like the Nation State.
Once you have brainwashed humans into believing they are self-aware, independent, critical thinking beings you have mapped a course towards social chaos and cruelty towards fellow man and nature in general. Europe has been on this selfish trajectory for centuries now.
I've read The Blind Watchmaker, Weaving the Rainbow and the Selfish Gene and I know from the excerpts I've read that the God Delusion is just a rehash of his previous work but with a strongly anti-religious rhetoric, ie, a rant.
It's not about truth... it's about balance.
A middle ground is sort between theism and atheism. It is neccessary to reconcile this polarisation problem which has plagued European civilisation since the Greeks.
While that may be true, it doesn't have much to do with the point I was making, does it?
What you've said is that America is extremely conceited and a international bully. I wouldn't disagree with you. The distinction I was making is that America doesn't choke its citizens' free will by threats of punishment if disassociation from the country is considered by said citizens. Unlike religion is with its 'citizens'.
False. Western religion may be a Western concept, but any geographical region has religions hailing to it as home.
This is, from what I can see, merely your opinion. It's an arguable opinion, sure...but only towards a hollow argument at best from your part.
A fair criticism.
I'd agree, philosophically. But philosophical truth and balance is what we philosophically define it as. Which means there are infinite ways to do this. So all I'd have to do to debunk your statement is simply disagree.
Agnosticism you mean? How is it necessary, then? What problem are you talking about for that matter?
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Enmos
Valued Senior Member
Maybe some people dont need to remind themselves to be good people !!? Would you do horrible things if you would not attend church ? Its just sad that you need to go to some church to be a good person. One can be a good person without ever believing in any God.
Really.. this is a disguised insult towards atheists!John J. Bannan said:
