Why do any of us deserve it?

calvin does not fit into this, i was asking the same question to the poster who did bring calvin into this thread. They told me that they where just venting their disagreement with the calvin doctrines.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
EmptyForceOfChi said:
an eternal afterlife (of anykind)




a place where all of our desires come true and its total bliss for eternity.


why do you think you deserve it, this question is for religious people, why do you deserve the afterlife?, i personally think i no way deserve something like that, i earned nothing i have been given everything, (yes i have had a hard life and grew up very poor, and been to jail and had to work hard for things and im nice to people even though im a fighter by nature) but all of that dosent mean anything really, it dosent mean to me that i deserve to go to heaven for eternity, i think some degree of pain and suffering is a blessing, and i wouldent be the way i am today without the suffering, so i dont hate the bad parts of life, i take it all as it comes and count my blessings every single day,




i dont think i deserve to go to heaven no matter what i do in the future, no future good could make up for past mistakes they are done and cannot be undone, i dont believe a sin can be repented and made better, you just do something and its either this way or that way, and saying sorry means nothing because you still done it,

sorry for sounding quite negative in this post, i just felt it had to be put in this certain way,



peace.
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You are under the misconception that an afterlife is a reward. The understanding is that the soul, not being material by nature, is not not subject to the laws of nature, that the soul is the opposite of nature and as such never ceases to be. So the subsequent death of the material body means the soul has to accept another body. The type of body selected would be one that fits exactly, the level of conciousness of the soul.

Jan.
 
Lerxst said:
Empty:

I highly recommend you read Martin Gardner's book The Whys of A Philosopical Scrivener.

Gardner is one of the greatest voices of science, reason, and skepticism of the 20th century, a man highly regarded by Sagan, Gould, Penrose, and other great scientists - and he is also a philosophical theist. His essays on religion are quite wonderful.
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thanks alot for the tip,

i will check his work out. i love all philosophy


peace.
 
mis-t-highs said:
all children are atheist until some indoctrinates them, there minds are like sponges, they will believe anything, and when the reach adulthood there sense reason and intellect should, make them see the errors in all religion and believe in god unfortunately some just cannot let go of the comfort blanket, and will believe there is an afterlife where god love all except the unbelievers and the millions of other religions, sad is'nt it. this is so sad, gone from normal to. why, this is so sad. sorry not logical, believing in fantasys is certainly not logical.
you are most likely an agnostic.
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hmm.

well it seems you interpret what i say a little off from my actual standpoint, i dont believe in god, i dont believe in an afterlife,

i dont think its "so sad" that i dont completely believe something like you do, the bible is a storybook, but the philosophy of a god is possible, maybe when you create am intelligent AI machine, then it tells you the logical theory of god like force that created existance, is not probable but possible, then maybe you will understand how i opperate.

the machine can tell it straight up, a random probable answer machine, it is not influenced by egotistical desires, it would be able to tell you that an infinite force that created the universe, is quite possible, because you speak of "illogical" "not logical" but your defenition of logic, is biased to what you percieve the universe as.

im not saying god does exist it seems you have missunderstood, im saying out of probability it is quite possible, i find it quite amusing, how athiest people claim they dont believe anything if they have no proof, yet there whole belief system is based upon what they think is true and isnt true, and as they dont actually know 100% what created the universe, they are doing what they claim to be against. "supporting a belif system with no real evidence", thats why i cant be like most athiests, i will not dedicate my life "thinking i know it all" because i just dont know anything really.


the bible is false, i belive none of it, the chance of ther ebieng some kind of eternal energy/force, is again i will say it "possible", wont go dedicating my life to it, because i have no proof, but i wont go dedicating my life to science either and their theorys, just because all the holybooks are false, it dosent mean the theory of an eternal energy is invalid, to think that is unscientific, "to assume without evidence".


i do not doubt physical science. i do not doubt biology, i do not doubt what we can examine and study, but i dont assume what i cannot possible understand, thats why i cant be like you,

and about me bieng agnostic, what is the actual defenition of this word? i dont actually fully understand it, they believe there is no god? but so do ethiests, so is there a difference?. all i know is agnostics are deppressing i hear, and well i just dont see how that describes me or my life :),


peace.
 
the empty space that the "relative" (to some) universe resides in, cannot be examined, and yet nobody thinks of what it is. the particles and gasses wind etc that pass through this emptyspace, the space infront of you is not just gasses and particles, if you take them away, you still have the "container" there that they used to reside in,

that we cant see hear touch feel smell taste, but we know its there,
and people theorise/philosophise about things they cannot ever claim proof of, and this becomes accepted as to what we foundation our whole belief system on, ie the big bang we will never know if that is true or not, yet we are willing to dedicate our lives to it as the root of our knowledge tree.


how using scientific measures can you explain,"knowing how existance began" and even claiming to have proof.


peace.
 
EmptyForceOfChi said:
an eternal afterlife (of anykind)




a place where all of our desires come true and its total bliss for eternity.


why do you think you deserve it, this question is for religious people, why do you deserve the afterlife?, i personally think i no way deserve something like that, i earned nothing i have been given everything, (yes i have had a hard life and grew up very poor, and been to jail and had to work hard for things and im nice to people even though im a fighter by nature) but all of that dosent mean anything really, it dosent mean to me that i deserve to go to heaven for eternity, i think some degree of pain and suffering is a blessing, and i wouldent be the way i am today without the suffering, so i dont hate the bad parts of life, i take it all as it comes and count my blessings every single day,
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You see, we are worth it, we are loved and love eachother.

God gave us His love, to share with eachother. When we love others we love God, cause it is with the love God gave us.

It isn't that you have to deserve it, no one does really. This is the big misunderstanding. You should try your best to be the best you can be, you should to show appreciation and to show to yourself that you can continue the good deeds. Life is a learning experiance, it's not that you should suffer unless you need to. You could live a nice life, before life you were 'nothing', what did you do to deserve even the life you have now?

It's a gift, be grateful and appreciate what is given to you, use life in a way that is meaningful, and love those weaker than you also those that help you and those that are in your life.


i dont think i deserve to go to heaven no matter what i do in the future, no future good could make up for past mistakes they are done and cannot be undone, i dont believe a sin can be repented and made better, you just do something and its either this way or that way, and saying sorry means nothing because you still done it,

sorry for sounding quite negative in this post, i just felt it had to be put in this certain way,



peace.
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You don't love someone because he deserves it. Or rather everyone deserves it. Just because they are.

You love someone, you should understand? Would you give that person anything you could? If he asked for food, would you give it to him? Would you help him in need?

All such things come from God, to do as He do. He who has given us everything.



It's weird, what if you never existed. Nothing would be. There wouldn't be anything.


If you stop existing after death, there wouldn't have been anything.

What you call *now* wouldn't have have been. It's your life. You have been given your life. You decide what to do, just do things that are good for your being and for the being of others that also has been given life. So that we can be the best we can be. What other way to treat life? How do you treat a stranger? We were once strangers to ourselves. Love is needed to help us find the way.
 
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i like what you said,

but i behave and would do all of those things for somebody, even if i knew 100% there was no god,

i understand what your saying about deserving, thats true.

peace,
 
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