Why do any of us deserve it?

E

EmptyForceOfChi

Banned
Banned
an eternal afterlife (of anykind)




a place where all of our desires come true and its total bliss for eternity.


why do you think you deserve it, this question is for religious people, why do you deserve the afterlife?, i personally think i no way deserve something like that, i earned nothing i have been given everything, (yes i have had a hard life and grew up very poor, and been to jail and had to work hard for things and im nice to people even though im a fighter by nature) but all of that dosent mean anything really, it dosent mean to me that i deserve to go to heaven for eternity, i think some degree of pain and suffering is a blessing, and i wouldent be the way i am today without the suffering, so i dont hate the bad parts of life, i take it all as it comes and count my blessings every single day,




i dont think i deserve to go to heaven no matter what i do in the future, no future good could make up for past mistakes they are done and cannot be undone, i dont believe a sin can be repented and made better, you just do something and its either this way or that way, and saying sorry means nothing because you still done it,

sorry for sounding quite negative in this post, i just felt it had to be put in this certain way,



peace.
 
there is no afterlife it's just a fantasy, please dont let it get you down, just think clearly and you will realise this.
 
yes as a little child this was my reality, i was never told there was a god fromt he day i was born, i was a little athiest child since the age of like 3-4.


but now i have become an adult and have thought from a non bias standpoint, i realise an afterlife is possible,

say a force with consciousness created the universe, and randomly life came about due to chemicals reacting within its creation (universe) then he just adds a little direction and leavs it be and never gets involved, the biengs that have evolved a conscious level would be recognised by him (haha so christian of me) and maybe he would create an alternate dimention for there conscious to exist after there physical machine dies,


there also could be many other logical explanations for an afterlife to be real for conscious and aware biengs, but i dont believe in an afterlife or a god, i cant accept anything that easily, (including scientific theorys with good logical explanations) i tend to stay neutral to everything and just observe, i listen to everything, and remember and learn from all people, but i dont completely believe anything 100%, (even that i exist as what i think i am)
i dont dissregard anything (exceptions to physical law ie if somebody claims they can perform supernatural abilities or if a pencil can support the empire state building etc.) but i never count out possibilities of things we are not 100% sure on, like flocks of people all take the big bang as fact. when they tend to forget that it is just a well thought out theory, but it dosent mean its true, but it dosent mean its not true,


i would class myself as an athiest if i had to class my way of thinking and belief system (i believe nothing) but most athiests just believe there is no god, i believe there is no god, at the same time that i believe in a god, i know anything is possible when we are speaking about the absolute beggining to existance of any shape or form itself, i wont ever join a religion and dedicate my life to the bible, or any other holy books, but i will read them and learn philosophical insight from them, same with science, i believe in physics and the earthly science of what we can study at hand, but i will not believe a theory to be absolute truth, but i will read all scientific theory for insight and greater understanding,



i just cant believe something that i cannot hold in my hand, or see with my eyes etc, and i cant change that.


plus, this was a question directed at religious people in particular, (i stated this) i am content in my own existance, i realise there is just as much chance of there bieng no god or afterlife, as there bieng an eternal force some call god. i just wanted to know why religious people think humans deserve an afterlife, after all we are kinda crumby as an overall species behaviour wise
.

peace.
 
we deserve eternal bliss (nothingness) because we have never done anything wrong and because we are the eternal existence, but it's gonna require many lives until we can accept and really want eternal bliss.

the reason atheists can't belive in god is because they think of it as a man in the sky.

nothing is our fault because we know nothing. we don't do wrong because we want to but because bad things has happened to us. that bad thing is our existence.
 
EmptyForceOfChi said:
an eternal afterlife (of anykind)




a place where all of our desires come true and its total bliss for eternity.


why do you think you deserve it, this question is for religious people, why do you deserve the afterlife?,
Click to expand...

Everyone is eternal. Its not a question of deserving it. It is a case of Gods Will that we are eternal.

But of course the eternal life your talking about is the eternal live in the presence of God.



i personally think i no way deserve something like that,
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Amen. So true. No one deserves eternal life with God, But once again it is Gods will and pleasure to grant eternal life with Him to those who love His truth.



i earned nothing i have been given everything, (yes i have had a hard life and grew up very poor, and been to jail and had to work hard for things and im nice to people even though im a fighter by nature) but all of that dosent mean anything really, it dosent mean to me that i deserve to go to heaven for eternity, i think some degree of pain and suffering is a blessing, and i wouldent be the way i am today without the suffering, so i dont hate the bad parts of life, i take it all as it comes and count my blessings every single day,
Click to expand...

Amen again. Through adversity we grow. Those who suffer are often the ones most compassionate towards others who are suffering.




i dont think i deserve to go to heaven no matter what i do in the future, no future good could make up for past mistakes they are done and cannot be undone, i dont believe a sin can be repented and made better, you just do something and its either this way or that way, and saying sorry means nothing because you still done it,
Click to expand...

But being sorry for it is the attitude God loves. God loves this attitude and has provided a way for us to be acceptable in eternity with Him by allowing people like you (who regret the evil that they have done and wish to do good) to have these past mistakes covered by Just Mercy through belief in The Messiah Jesus.



sorry for sounding quite negative in this post, i just felt it had to be put in this certain way,



peace.
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I did not find it negative. I found your words beautiful.

Isaiah 57
15 For thus says the High and Lofty One Who inhabits eternity, whose name is Holy: “ I dwell in the high and holy place,With him who has a contrite and humble spirit, To revive the spirit of the humble, And to revive the heart of the contrite ones.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
Empty,

I realize you addressed this towards believers, and I am not one, but I'll answer anyway:

Sure, I think we deserve it. Personally I think existing as a finite, sentient being that is simultaneously endowed with a strong sense of self / survival instinct and a palpable awareness of the impending, utter decimation of that self is downright horrifying. But I can see how this ordeal might be a type of training or "soul-building" experience that is a pre-requisite for a higher level of being beyond. I'll admit this is quite possibly just a fantasy, as some would say. I have no way of knowing one way or the other.
 
calvin's predestination: yeh sure we do, well, some of us, the elite - the rest of us can go burn in hell. we don't know which of us are the elite and which are the damned, but there's nothing we can do to change it. :mad: :mad: :mad: i hate calvin!!! i mean, what kind of philosophy is that???tho actually when you think about it, it is the logical end point if we believe in Calvin's God: omnipotent, ominiscient and all powerful...

ok enough with the anti-calvin rantings....
 
THE idea that we live on in heaven is nonsense... i will consider my self lucky if GOD considers the memories of my life... worth keeping.. worth remmbering.

thats it.

-MT
 
EmptyForceOfChi said:
yes as a little child this was my reality, i was never told there was a god fromt he day i was born, i was a little athiest child since the age of like 3-4.
Click to expand...
all children are atheist until some indoctrinates them, there minds are like sponges, they will believe anything, and when the reach adulthood there sense reason and intellect should, make them see the errors in all religion and believe in god unfortunately some just cannot let go of the comfort blanket, and will believe there is an afterlife where god love all except the unbelievers and the millions of other religions, sad is'nt it.
EmptyForceOfChi said:
but now i have become an adult and have thought from a non bias standpoint, i realise an afterlife is possible,
Click to expand...
this is so sad, gone from normal to.
EmptyForceOfChi said:
say a force with consciousness created the universe, and randomly life came about due to chemicals reacting within its creation (universe) then he just adds a little direction and leavs it be and never gets involved, the biengs that have evolved a conscious level would be recognised by him (haha so christian of me) and maybe he would create an alternate dimention for there conscious to exist after there physical machine dies,
Click to expand...
why, this is so sad.
EmptyForceOfChi said:
there also could be many other logical explanations for an afterlife
Click to expand...
sorry not logical, believing in fantasys is certainly not logical.
EmptyForceOfChi said:
to be real for conscious and aware biengs, but i dont believe in an afterlife or a god, i cant accept anything that easily, (including scientific theorys with good logical explanations) i tend to stay neutral to everything and just observe, i listen to everything, and remember and learn from all people, but i dont completely believe anything 100%, (even that i exist as what i think i am)
i dont dissregard anything (exceptions to physical law ie if somebody claims they can perform supernatural abilities or if a pencil can support the empire state building etc.) but i never count out possibilities of things we are not 100% sure on, like flocks of people all take the big bang as fact. when they tend to forget that it is just a well thought out theory, but it dosent mean its true, but it dosent mean its not true,


i would class myself as an athiest if i had to class my way of thinking and belief system (i believe nothing) but most athiests just believe there is no god, i believe there is no god, at the same time that i believe in a god, i know anything is possible when we are speaking about the absolute beggining to existance of any shape or form itself, i wont ever join a religion and dedicate my life to the bible, or any other holy books, but i will read them and learn philosophical insight from them, same with science, i believe in physics and the earthly science of what we can study at hand, but i will not believe a theory to be absolute truth, but i will read all scientific theory for insight and greater understanding,



i just cant believe something that i cannot hold in my hand, or see with my eyes etc, and i cant change that.


plus, this was a question directed at religious people in particular, (i stated this) i am content in my own existance, i realise there is just as much chance of there bieng no god or afterlife, as there bieng an eternal force some call god. i just wanted to know why religious people think humans deserve an afterlife, after all we are kinda crumby as an overall species behaviour wise
.

peace.
Click to expand...
you are most likely an agnostic.
 
Empty:

I highly recommend you read Martin Gardner's book The Whys of A Philosopical Scrivener.

Gardner is one of the greatest voices of science, reason, and skepticism of the 20th century, a man highly regarded by Sagan, Gould, Penrose, and other great scientists - and he is also a philosophical theist. His essays on religion are quite wonderful.
 
Adstar said:
No amen means, So be it.

All Praise the Ancient Of Days
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*************
M*W: "Amen" is still an Egyptian word. Both the old and new testaments were highly influenced by the Egyptians -- the forerunners of the Jews, Christians and Muslims. In fact, the whole persona of these individual religions is a facade. They're all still Egyptian whether you believe it or not.
 
While I don't know the meaning of life (As well as many other people). I reckon that the reason we live today is because we're part of the Universes's (Or Multiverse if there is such thing) experiment. The Universe/Multiverse probably runs the same as our minds (Although probably not as intelligent as us in some ways as I don't hear the Universe/Multiverse talking in the same language as us, but it might just not want to communicate with us in the way we want it to or else then it would probably ruin the Universe/Multiverse's 'experiment).

In other words what I'm trying to say is that (In a religon sort of way) God (Who from many religon's beliefs has unnatural powers) is the Universe/Multiverse itself. Crazy I know, but the reason I think this makes sense because from what many religons tell us is that if we do bad acts for our or other's existence (E.g stealing from others, harming each other) we will get punished.

The Universe/Multiverse to me works in a similar way. If we do bad acts that would harm our existence (E.g causing pollution which is causing the greenhouse effect), our punishment will be total extinction of our race (Part of the laws of physics), although sometimes the Universe/Multiverse can be just cruel and kill an organic race for what looks like to be no reason what so ever to us (This is prboably also just part of the Universe/Multiverse's experimentation), a good reason for this would be the extinction of the dinosaurs (As we do not know why the Universe/Multiverse wanted the kill all the dinosaurs).

Actually after writing all that I've just came up with what I think is the meaning of life. To keep our race from becoming extinct (Why else do you think we can give birth), also to keep on evolving so that we can become the dominant race (By that I mean we run on a system with no flaws.... Which ofcourse we don't..... Why else do we get wars and such?).

Well the reason we get wars is because wars are caused by people who want power (So they can live life more easily, and to live longer), this really contradicts the meaning of live I've created, because we're obivously harming each others existence through war and other self gains which is just taking us one step closer to extinction (While a very small step, others such as global warming and impropper use of fossil fuels are gonna have a huge impact on us all hundreds of years later) due to having a flawed system.

While the Universe/Multiverse created us so we can try to become the dominant race with a flawless system, some people do not believe in that meaning because we all know we're gonna die at some point (From old age) so they just try to make the best of their lives to try and live for as long as possible (Which has lead to many wars and other actions that have a bad impact on other people's lives).

This leads me to believe that there are two meanings of life. One created by the Universe/Multiverse, the other being created by those of some intelligence (By that I don't just mean humans, but also other forms of life), because of us lifeform gaining intelligence not only has it helped us, but also helped to destroy us in some other form.

One of the reasons why the Universe/Multiverse will soon kill us all is because the Universe/Multiverse has come to believe that intelligence has hindered us and the Universe/Multiverse might get the idea that it shouldn't of given life intelligence, maybe because we do not know how to use it properly, or maybe it should be just one of those things which only the Universe/Multiverse should have because only the Universe/Multiverse can use intelligence wisely.

I'm sure I've made some error (And probably have repeated what other people have said in some other form) in my opinion due to how much I've written and how there is so much to life that I haven't covered all of it in this post (Which if I decided to do, would possibly take me forever to finish it). Any critism will be appreciated as not only does it allow for others to see one's opinion and correct their own mistakes but also to make more room for discussion.

Whew man that must be the most constructive post I've ever made in my entire life, with barely any insanity in it..... This is not ordinary...... I must type in something stupid to make it ordinary to me.....
 
Mythbuster:

Are you familiar with the Omega Point Theory of Frank Tipler?
 
longlostlady said:
calvin's predestination: yeh sure we do, well, some of us, the elite - the rest of us can go burn in hell. we don't know which of us are the elite and which are the damned, but there's nothing we can do to change it. :mad: :mad: :mad: i hate calvin!!! i mean, what kind of philosophy is that???tho actually when you think about it, it is the logical end point if we believe in Calvin's God: omnipotent, ominiscient and all powerful...

ok enough with the anti-calvin rantings....
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Where did this come from Longlostlady? Did someone post a pro-calvin post in this thread?


All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
Lerxst said:
Mythbuster:

Are you familiar with the Omega Point Theory of Frank Tipler?
Click to expand...

I looked into it a little bit, and, I admit, it's rather interesting... ...
I really can't see the "meaning of life" as being a strive to survive generations forth or such because earth is already doomed to destruction, isn't it? Our sun is limited.. unless I'm mistaken.

"Following your heart" and "following your instincts", at least to myself, are two different things. I'm pretty sure there are instances where they can disagree...
Following your heart as the meaning of your existence? Hm, perhaps... But If it were wouldn't that mean that the majority of people don't follow their heart?

Hm, I've always though the strive for balace, peace, truth and all that is right would be the best things to search for in life.. but you have to first find what those things are(ie right and wrong..?). Rather round-about..

One thing I can say plainly, though: I do NOT think the meaning of life is happiness. That's easily found and lost~ temporary...
 
lol no i'm just all pissed off with calvin atm because of the stupid amounts of research i've had to do into predestination.

ok, so i wander away from the point :rolleyes: sorry!
 
Mythbuster said:
I looked into it a little bit, and, I admit, it's rather interesting... ...
I really can't see the "meaning of life" as being a strive to survive generations forth or such because earth is already doomed to destruction, isn't it? Our sun is limited.. unless I'm mistaken.
Click to expand...

In the Tipler scenario, our descendants will have left this rock before the sun devours it. If we don't colonize space, we ARE doomed.

In the Tipler scenario, the colonization will take place using von Neumann probes. Colonization is just the first step. After that it gets very hard to understand. The upshot is, there is no God now, but our descendents are going to create him eventually, and Tipler thinks that there is a way we all can and will be resurrected. See his book The Physics of Immortality.

A fascinating idea, really - technology will become God. However the critical consensus is that his physics is way, way off the mark. So I'm pretty doubtful about the whole notion, but hey - I can hope!
 
Lerxst said:
In the Tipler scenario, our descendants will have left this rock before the sun devours it. If we don't colonize space, we ARE doomed.

In the Tipler scenario, the colonization will take place using von Neumann probes. Colonization is just the first step. After that it gets very hard to understand. The upshot is, there is no God now, but our descendents are going to create him eventually, and Tipler thinks that there is a way we all can and will be resurrected. See his book The Physics of Immortality.

A fascinating idea, really - technology will become God. However the critical consensus is that his physics is way, way off the mark. So I'm pretty doubtful about the whole notion, but hey - I can hope!
Click to expand...

Oh cool, no worries. I am not keen on calvin either. :rolleyes: But it is a strong deception.


All Praise The Ancient OF Days
 
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