P. M. Thorne
Registered Senior Member
God is, or is not? (Huh oh)
G0DLESS: I am really sorry. I typed this up on Word, saved it as a draft on the same or possibly the day after your posting, and was reminded by my computer today that it was still in "draft." As far as I can tell, it was not posted. So, here it is, late, but maybe not too late.
.........................................................................
Bless your heart. At least you were not nasty.
There are those who would swear that only the weak, or the moronic would believe in a God. There are others who think only the world's children of disobedience would deny that God is.
"The fool has said in his heart, there is no God," according to the Bible. The philosopher, Spinoza, contends that it is "innate in man to believe in God." However, we who are not so sure, or not so well educated in human history, may not be as convinced, one way or another, and therefore may spend a good part of our lives wondering, doubting, --trying to believe! --trying not to disbelieve!
You will laugh at me, but sometimes I find myself amazed at the audacity of man. Man! Humankind, if you prefer. Who is he? Made of clay, flawed, disagreeable, fooling himself with acquisitions, and what we call progress, progress that often ruins, and engaging in wars that ruin progress! We are in a world that clutters and destroys, plunders and torments, judges and kills, where even people who hate war, in their own way, war . . . nonetheless.
We are complex, more than profound, we are destructive, more than creative, and yet we hope. Yet, to try to place God Almighty in this mess somewhere, or even in the good, which truly exists, in spite of our failings! . . . is almost too difficult for many of us.
We read our own history and call bloody, warmongering men of old, "The Great," and yet we claim to uphold peace; we prove this by giving money to charities and opposing capital punishment for our own society. All this we do while admiring "The Great's." Those "Great leaders" of desolation took their armies across this planet, leaving dry earth where water had flowed, bloody fields, void of edible vegetation, where there had been an abundant source for food. Empty structures, when any structure remained after the plundering and hacking. Where there had been families, only dead bodies! And, we call them "The Great." Who are we really? Do we know? Are we part of them? God forbid, but look!
We do not need a God, someone says. Why, someone asks, do we not need a God? We can destroy this planet all by ourselves.
Is this where our power lies? Or is it in our magnificent structures, that can be destroyed in a matter of minutes, by hate driven man.
Even without the major atrocities, we manage to keep our little wars going. We are threatened by those who disagree with us, hindered by those who think less of us, posture for the masses to prove our worth. We ignore the destruction of our planet, and blame it all on this God that does not exist!
Is it then understandable why we claim not to need a higher power? Is it not easier to admit that there is probably no God, than to declare that God is, and then try to explain why He has seemingly forgotten us?
But wait! Is it not our own behavior that has caused the real problems? Is not "our behavior" exactly what makes this world what it is? When we say "Why did God allow such a thing to happen?" we may as well say, "Why does God let us behave in such a manner?" When we say religion has caused wars, we should be saying, humankind has caused wars! Without the labels, we are all in the same category! Underneath what we call religion, are personal motives, just like anywhere else.
Anytime religion becomes a big problem for the world, is it not the whole of that religion, but rather the extremists, or the upper echelon; ie, an extreme and dangerous mindset, or those in high places, drunken with power. Surely, it is not the little quibbling ones, who annoy and hurt in a charge to change their neighbors, that do the most damage. Nay!
So, how bad is it to be a religious person on the attack? I say, just as bad as anything that makes one want to condemn his neighbor! What makes it seem worse is that the former is done in the name of God, and I say it is worse! Yes, it is, but only for the propagators.
I remember, after I lost my son, while still in a state of enormous grief, I said to a dear friend, --(a Christian, she was, but I did not care), I said, "The ones that hurt me the most and that comfort me the least, tend to be people who are religious."
Expecting her to try to justify the ones of whom I spoke, I was surprised, with her quick matter-of-fact response: "Well, I would not feel too bad about that," she said. Those were the ones Jesus had the most trouble with."
The best we can do for this world is available to us. All that we need is within us. What we leave behind is up to each of us. When we cling to what we call life, at any cost, and grieve when it is gone, we display our helplessness, --which is okay, because in the final stages, we are in many ways helpless. Actually, our grieving should be for the living.
My best wishes to you. PMT
// PS/ If by any chance this was posted before this date, then, Oh me, suppose I will have to apologize again!
G0DLESS: I am really sorry. I typed this up on Word, saved it as a draft on the same or possibly the day after your posting, and was reminded by my computer today that it was still in "draft." As far as I can tell, it was not posted. So, here it is, late, but maybe not too late.
.........................................................................
Bless your heart. At least you were not nasty.
There are those who would swear that only the weak, or the moronic would believe in a God. There are others who think only the world's children of disobedience would deny that God is.
"The fool has said in his heart, there is no God," according to the Bible. The philosopher, Spinoza, contends that it is "innate in man to believe in God." However, we who are not so sure, or not so well educated in human history, may not be as convinced, one way or another, and therefore may spend a good part of our lives wondering, doubting, --trying to believe! --trying not to disbelieve!
You will laugh at me, but sometimes I find myself amazed at the audacity of man. Man! Humankind, if you prefer. Who is he? Made of clay, flawed, disagreeable, fooling himself with acquisitions, and what we call progress, progress that often ruins, and engaging in wars that ruin progress! We are in a world that clutters and destroys, plunders and torments, judges and kills, where even people who hate war, in their own way, war . . . nonetheless.
We are complex, more than profound, we are destructive, more than creative, and yet we hope. Yet, to try to place God Almighty in this mess somewhere, or even in the good, which truly exists, in spite of our failings! . . . is almost too difficult for many of us.
We read our own history and call bloody, warmongering men of old, "The Great," and yet we claim to uphold peace; we prove this by giving money to charities and opposing capital punishment for our own society. All this we do while admiring "The Great's." Those "Great leaders" of desolation took their armies across this planet, leaving dry earth where water had flowed, bloody fields, void of edible vegetation, where there had been an abundant source for food. Empty structures, when any structure remained after the plundering and hacking. Where there had been families, only dead bodies! And, we call them "The Great." Who are we really? Do we know? Are we part of them? God forbid, but look!
We do not need a God, someone says. Why, someone asks, do we not need a God? We can destroy this planet all by ourselves.
Is this where our power lies? Or is it in our magnificent structures, that can be destroyed in a matter of minutes, by hate driven man.
Even without the major atrocities, we manage to keep our little wars going. We are threatened by those who disagree with us, hindered by those who think less of us, posture for the masses to prove our worth. We ignore the destruction of our planet, and blame it all on this God that does not exist!
Is it then understandable why we claim not to need a higher power? Is it not easier to admit that there is probably no God, than to declare that God is, and then try to explain why He has seemingly forgotten us?
But wait! Is it not our own behavior that has caused the real problems? Is not "our behavior" exactly what makes this world what it is? When we say "Why did God allow such a thing to happen?" we may as well say, "Why does God let us behave in such a manner?" When we say religion has caused wars, we should be saying, humankind has caused wars! Without the labels, we are all in the same category! Underneath what we call religion, are personal motives, just like anywhere else.
Anytime religion becomes a big problem for the world, is it not the whole of that religion, but rather the extremists, or the upper echelon; ie, an extreme and dangerous mindset, or those in high places, drunken with power. Surely, it is not the little quibbling ones, who annoy and hurt in a charge to change their neighbors, that do the most damage. Nay!
So, how bad is it to be a religious person on the attack? I say, just as bad as anything that makes one want to condemn his neighbor! What makes it seem worse is that the former is done in the name of God, and I say it is worse! Yes, it is, but only for the propagators.
I remember, after I lost my son, while still in a state of enormous grief, I said to a dear friend, --(a Christian, she was, but I did not care), I said, "The ones that hurt me the most and that comfort me the least, tend to be people who are religious."
Expecting her to try to justify the ones of whom I spoke, I was surprised, with her quick matter-of-fact response: "Well, I would not feel too bad about that," she said. Those were the ones Jesus had the most trouble with."
The best we can do for this world is available to us. All that we need is within us. What we leave behind is up to each of us. When we cling to what we call life, at any cost, and grieve when it is gone, we display our helplessness, --which is okay, because in the final stages, we are in many ways helpless. Actually, our grieving should be for the living.
My best wishes to you. PMT
// PS/ If by any chance this was posted before this date, then, Oh me, suppose I will have to apologize again!
