Why did man creat god?

[Raithere]

Re: Re: Why did man creat god?

Originally posted by Jan Ardena
Where is the evidence that man created God?

Actually, there's no reason to digress, the answer is quite simple. Unless you can point us towards a burning bush or a disembodied voice coming from the sky; all concepts have been communicated through the voices and writings of human beings. Thus, unless there is specific and convincing evidence that indicates that these concepts originated elsewhere why should we not believe that they were simply invented by humans? Without reason why should we believe that religious assertions are any different than any other assertion a person might make?

~Raithere

 

[Jan Ardena]

Re: Re: Re: Why did man creat god?

Originally posted by Raithere
Actually, there's no reason to digress, the answer is quite simple. Unless you can point us towards a burning bush or a disembodied voice coming from the sky; all concepts have been communicated through the voices and writings of human beings. Thus, unless there is specific and convincing evidence that indicates that these concepts originated elsewhere why should we not believe that they were simply invented by humans? Without reason why should we believe that religious assertions are any different than any other assertion a person might make?

~Raithere

Even if i could perform such a task, i doubt whether you would believe.
But the fact that you are asking why you should believe is a good start to finding the answers.

Love

Jan Ardena.

 

[Fluidity]

Quite Plainly

Without reason why should we believe that religious assertions are any different than any other assertion a person might make?
<HR>
<b>Such beliefs are built on faith. We have to <i>want</i> to believe, and it usually involves a great deal of personal insight to answer the kinds of questions that atheists pose to theists on a regular basis. We ask ourselves the same questions you do, and we find our own answers, because we <i>want</i> to believe. In other words, before you doubt the degree to which a believer thinks things through before he/she is capable of real belief, you might ask. Each believer has a different degree of insight to 'reality' as you call it, and his/her own perception of the Universe. Most of us, know only what we have read or seen or experienced with our own eyes. There are as many loopholes, voids, and empty spaces in your concept of reality as there are in the belief in any God.

I wouldn't be surprised at all to find that many believers know as much about 'reality' as any atheist.</b>

 

[jayterrier]

I find logic to be one of the most reliable methods for examining a situation.

Logically explain love.

 

[Raithere]

Originally posted by jayterrier
Logically explain love.

Certainly. First though, I must ask you to define love and what it is you wish me to explain about it.

One of the problems in answering this common question is that the word love is used to express many different things. Love might be a physical attraction or an emotional bond, perhaps a feeling of wonder or attachment. The word encompasses a wide range of emotions, thoughts, and behaviors. The love between two adults who are sexually attracted to each other is not the same thing as the emotion a parent feels for their child. So you must specify.

Another problem is that love, being an emotion, is a subjective experience. What might suffice as a definition and explanation of love to me might not reflect your experience of it. This is something that we intrinsically understand but rarely discuss. No one ever suggest, for instance; that their experience of love is something that everyone else must also feel. Yet, love is often used as an analogy to God by those who assert that God exists for everyone in a way that love does not. The analogy does not work.

~Raithere

 

[Fluidity]

Logically Defining Love:

As complex living things, human beings have needs that extend beyond food and shelter. We cannot live alone in a room with these simple necessities and be healthy. From the time we are born, we depend on another human being to provide the things we need. As we go through life, our needs change. As those needs are met more an more by our own efforts through independence, we seek the fulfilment of other needs and desires. Our desires vary with our sex, background, ethnicity, etc.
But, we almost always seek another person to help us attain our goals and fulfill our desires. Ultimately, we desire to feel safe and appreciated by the one person we most identify with. When all things are in accord, those of us who have chosen the opposite sex for a partner in life, have children. Here, the cycle continues to repeat. Here, there is Love, which is the faith we place in another human being to provide the necessities of life and the desires we cannot fulfill alone.

As a race of humans, we belong to a beautiful planet, and it belongs to us. From the beginning of time we have wondered where our planet came from, and why we are here. Most of us agree we are here to perpetuate our existence through learning how to achieve perfect harmony among our race through extending the Love we share as families and friends, to the countries around the globe, and beyond into the Universe.
We long to explain our own Origin in the same way a child misses a Father or Mother. Many of us have long believed that our Universe is the work of a Creator, whom we call God. We believe God is the source of all good things, here and beyond, as far as eyes can see and ships will ever carry us. We view the Universe and our Planet, and even one another as the most beautiful act of love any being can endure.

And for all of this creation, this God remains silent, in an heroic effort to allow us the power of choice, and to define faith as the substance of things hoped for, and the evidence of things not seen.

 

[deathrose]

Re: Logically Defining Love:

Originally posted by Fluidity
Most of us agree we are here to perpetuate our existence through learning how to achieve perfect harmony among our race through extending the Love we share as families and friends, to the countries around the globe, and beyond into the Universe...

...And for all of this creation, this God remains silent, in an heroic effort to allow us the power of choice, and to define faith as the substance of things hoped for, and the evidence of things not seen.

first of all that is beautiful. however, to be quite frank, i disagree with your belief in the asperations of mankind. i have absolutely no faith in mankind, nor in his inherinent abilty to love. and perhaps its one of the reasons i am an atheist (the other being the state of organized religeon around the globe and the things people have done in its name). you state that god is silent, that it gives no proof of its existence to allow us the power of choice? that an omnipresent all loving god would allow things like world war, fammine and plague, just so we have the power of choice? thanx but no thanx. to me that is like putting a child in the forest and watching it try to live, offering it no help, no protection, and no love. im not saying i need physical proof to believe in a god, that there must be some logical reason why. but i believe more solidly in human nature, and its capacity to create a supreame being to justify the inexplicable, over the pressence of a sadistic supreme being who would allow the atrocities of the world.

 

[Fluidity]

Oh my...

that an omnipresent all loving god would allow things like world war, fammine and plague, just so we have the power of choice? thanx but no thanx. to me that is like putting a child in the forest and watching it try to live, offering it no help, no protection, and no love.
<HR>
<b>You would not imagine the compassion and empathy I feel for this perspective. However, we are adults. </b>

We are not children in a forest. We have done ourselves great harm, knowing all the while the cost. There is one War we cannot blame on God or religion, one man we can call inherently evil: World War II, and Adolf Hitler.

He 'untaught' the fundamental truths of human nature. Throughout the globe there are leaders doing the same. God does not 'allow' these things to happen. God must not intervene, or the growth process is interrupted. I personally think we will survive to become better keepers of ourselves and this planet. I don't know what the price will be.

What I do believe, is that if people like you and myself are all over the world, there is cause to have some faith in humanity.

We are like the young man or woman who finally leaves home to fend for themselves. It is time we take responsibility for our actions and stop blindly blaming God or Human nature for the flaws in our systems. You are describing bad goverment and corrupt people.

There are fewer of them, than there are of us.
Keep the faith; we need you. (note: faith in humanity, regardless of your religion or position.)

 

[deathrose]

Re: Oh my...

Originally posted by Fluidity
We are not children in a forest. We have done ourselves great harm, knowing all the while the cost. There is one War we cannot blame on God or religion, one man we can call inherently evil: World War II, and Adolf Hitler.

first off i am not trying to be as defensive as this will sound. I cannot blame something i do not believe to exist for the evils in the wold. i fully understand that they are the products of man. i also believe a part of my problem lies in my being raised catholic with access to a bible (which, no offense inteneded, is the most hyppocritical and contradictory thing i have ever had the displesure of reading) which is full of storries of 'god' appearing to his peopl, speaking to them via a burning bush to lead them from slavery. that a god would guide a people only to abandon them. but then agian, do you believe god and nature to be seperate entities? that the planet and the natural world are governed by its own forces? and if so is that entity capable of interfering with our 'growth'? with our ability to ascend to a higher conscienceness where we can love everyone as stated in your definition.

Originally posted by Fluidity
I personally think we will survive to become better keepers of ourselves and this planet. I don't know what the price will be.

here is anohter difference in our beliefs it would seem. i am nearly posative man will eventually destroy himself and this planet. but then agian perhaps that is simply another stage in our 'growth' that all the unacceptable portions of society will be earadicated, the meek shall inherit the earth? and is this another prerequisite to your all-loving society? that there be few enough people left htat they can finally realize that all the differences they so concentrated on are superficial and dont matter. because i understand that i am not anywhere near such a level, there are over 6 billion people on this planet, and i am not capable of giving more than a select few my love. and perhaps it is my youth and inexperience speaking, but i dont believe most of humanity is capable of such love, nor that it will be any time soon.

 

[Fluidity]

awsome questions

Earth, God, Nature, the Universe, in my belief, singular as it sounds, are all one. The Universe is the flesh of God, and as humans, our thoughts mingle with God's thoughts. This is important to me to believe because I am not unique. Others like me, believers and not, look up into the sky each night at the same stars, and we hope the same things, and we fear the same things. We go on through each day, faithful somehow we will manage to do what we can to do a bit better than survive. I can't give any more love than I already do. But, I sincerely hope that I am harmless. Being harmless is all a human need to do to help the rest of humanity survive and be healthy. Where people are starving, there is a culprit. That culprit is poor government. You and I can do little or nothing about that, except hope. We can throw money at the problem, but it won't go away until a better government steps in.

I used to think the world was full of people that do not think. This is not true. They are afraid. There are a few fearless fools, screaming at one another, and there are a few quiet geniuses, wishing things were different, publishing this and that for us to read or watch in the theater. The rest are humble pie, sweet as candy, and they wouldn't dream of hurting anyone except to preserve their own.

The stories in the Bible, and any other religious text, require a great deal of wisdom to interpret wholly. I cannot. Most of the stories are about the struggle of man against himself. How simple. To depict man in his downfalls, only to rise up and become peaceful at heart. Not all of the stories are poignant in an obvious way. That isn't important.

What is important is believing in something worthwhile, whether it is God or humanity, yourself or your work...something.
It's important because it makes us productive and happy. These things make us harmless contributors to the world around us.

You know: a butterfly flaps its wings in Idaho, and a tsunami wave hits the coast of Japan...that sort of connection.

We are small. But, as a whole, we are extremely important.

 

[ConsequentAtheist]

What awsome questions?

Originally posted by Fluidity
Earth, God, Nature, the Universe, in my belief, singular as it sounds, are all one. The Universe is the flesh of God, and as humans, our thoughts mingle with God's thoughts. This is important to me to believe because I am not unique. Others like me, believers and not, look up into the sky each night at the same stars, and we hope the same things, and we fear the same things. We go on through each day, faithful somehow we will manage to do what we can to do a bit better than survive. I can't give any more love than I already do. But, I sincerely hope that I am harmless. Being harmless is all a human need to do to help the rest of humanity survive and be healthy. Where people are starving, there is a culprit. That culprit is poor government. You and I can do little or nothing about that, except hope. We can throw money at the problem, but it won't go away until a better government steps in.

I used to think the world was full of people that do not think. This is not true. They are afraid. There are a few fearless fools, screaming at one another, and there are a few quiet geniuses, wishing things were different, publishing this and that for us to read or watch in the theater. The rest are humble pie, sweet as candy, and they wouldn't dream of hurting anyone except to preserve their own.

The stories in the Bible, and any other religious text, require a great deal of wisdom to interpret wholly. I cannot. Most of the stories are about the struggle of man against himself. How simple. To depict man in his downfalls, only to rise up and become peaceful at heart. Not all of the stories are poignant in an obvious way. That isn't important.

What is important is believing in something worthwhile, whether it is God or humanity, yourself or your work...something.
It's important because it makes us productive and happy. These things make us harmless contributors to the world around us.

You know: a butterfly flaps its wings in Idaho, and a tsunami wave hits the coast of Japan...that sort of connection.

We are small. But, as a whole, we are extremely important.

Actually (symptomatically), you asked no questions at all. You simply tried to sound "deep". To succeed, however, you'll need to do better than such vacuous statements as: "The stories in the Bible, and any other religious text, require a great deal of wisdom to interpret wholly".

 

[Fluidity]

CA

I wasn't asking questions, deathrose was.
Feeling OK there?

 

[jayterrier]

I must apologize, I did not think there was an answer to my question " logically define love". In my opinion, love like other emotions can not be defined by logic. they fall outside the realms of reason. You like mustard and I don't. No amount of argument can change my mind. Such is emotion, not to be reasoned or argued.

i have absolutely no faith in mankind, nor in his inherinent abilty to love. and perhaps its one of the reasons i am an atheist (

This quote confuses me. You say love is inherent but you don't believe mankind is capable. This is contradictory. Which is it?

 

[deathrose]

i apologize, it was poorly worded. i believe man is capable of love, but i put no faith in his ability to act on that love, or even in most cases on common sense. so i hope this helps with your confusion.

You know: a butterfly flaps its wings in Idaho, and a tsunami wave hits the coast of Japan...that sort of connection.

sorry, but not in my world i dont search for connnection and meaning in all things, which is probaly why i dont see the connection you do, but that is the difference of our perceptions and while some will go to war over it, others post it in forums for other intelligent persons to debate.

What is important is believing in something worthwhile, whether it is God or humanity, yourself or your work...something.

and perhaps this is the o nly thing i will fully agree with you on, but i believe that each person must make this choice. dont believe in a god just because its what you grew up with, because its what your parents thought they believed in. i know what i believe and i dont need to put my faith in a god of any sorts. that is my belief. and perhaps if others could just learn the simple truht in you're statement there would be fewer conflicts in the world in general. people believe what they want, and in some cases just what they are told to. i believe the second to be the more dangerous. despite the horrors that have arrisen from the former, without sheep the sheapard has no power. im rambling again and getting further off topic as i go, so ill end there and hope that i havent fully confuzed anyone.

Fluidity it has been a pleasure talking with you. even though i think you may have dodged some of my questions or perhaps just overlooked them, thank you for your opinions.