Oh boy...
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Ekimklaw wrote:
First of all Voodoo Child... your moniker "kill your President" is VERY offensive. Please change it.
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Voodoo Child wrote:
Why would I do that? It's already very offensive.
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Maybe you think it's funny to encourage people to kill someone, but I don't. Not only that but there are federal laws against it. I will report you as soon as I am finished responding to your "post".
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Ekimklaw wrote:
Whether you believe he is real, or a figment of imagination will determine whether your question is relevant or not.
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Voodoo Child wrote:
No it doesn't. If I don't believe God exists then I can still access the the coherence of the God myth.
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Look, if you believe he is real, then what difference does it make what you think he should do? He will do his will regardless. Therefore your question is moot. If you do NOT think he exists, why are we having this conversation to begin with?
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Voodoo Child wrote:
He created us perhaps, but in the same way parents don't have absolute authority over their adult children be shouldn't necessarily have authority over us.
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Ekimklaw wrote:
Says you. Who died and left you in charge?
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Voodoo Child wrote:
No one died and left me in charge. Same for God. Generally this idea of adult autonomy is quite universally present across people and cultures.
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It is NOT up to you to determine what God should or shouldn't do. It IS up to you to believe or not. Do you understand? God is a supreme being. Implicit in that is his being totally above human comprehension. After all if he was comprehendable, he would not be GOD. That which we CAN comprehend about God is that which he has revealed to us. This revelation to us speaks of "faith" and "things unseen" and lots of other hard concepts. Included in this text is the teaching that God is soverein over his creation. Our duty is to accept or reject this notion. <period>
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Voodoo Child wrote:
He was never elected, no one put him in charge. Where does his authority come from?
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Ekimklaw wrote:
He created us, and in fact ALL of reality.
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Voodoo Child wrote:
So? The All-Knowing has said this a few times. Now explain why you forever keep authority over something that you have created, when it is self-aware.
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Here's another analogy. Think of a top as opposed to a rotary engine. With a top one provides motion initially and leaves it to run down. With a motor on the other hand it is fueled and repaired and attended to in order that it should run for a long time. The motor requires active involvement, while the top requires initial involvment only. The Earth is more like the motor, because God is still involved.
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Voodoo Child wrote:
It is a reasonably elementary theological question, in sure it has a reasonable answer, I just don't see it.
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Ekimklaw wrote:
That's like asking why the Earth has the right to impose the law of gravity on people of Earth. It's because the law of gravity (and many other physical laws) is part of the original setup.
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Vodoo Child wrote:
The problem with this analogy should be obvious to most: neither the earth nor gravity can choose not to apply themselves to people. They have no consciousness and no choice.
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No, but people sure can choose to defy gravity. Whether or not gravity can or cannot choose to apply itself to people is irrelevant. There exists today gravity. Defying it carries stiff penalties (like falling to your death). If you consider that God exists, similarly immutable MORAL laws are in place on Earth. So, the analogy is in fact a perfect one. You can claim "gravity doesn't exist" all you want to (it will still exist anyway), and choose to defy it. Just like God. But watch out. There are consequences.
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Ekimklaw wrote:
Similarly when God created the universe he created it with immutable moral laws. You are free to believe it or not.
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Voodoo Child wrote:
That's just spiffy. Do we know what they are yet?
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Yeah, read the Bible.
-Mike
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Ekimklaw wrote:
First of all Voodoo Child... your moniker "kill your President" is VERY offensive. Please change it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Voodoo Child wrote:
Why would I do that? It's already very offensive.
==============================================
Maybe you think it's funny to encourage people to kill someone, but I don't. Not only that but there are federal laws against it. I will report you as soon as I am finished responding to your "post".
==============================================
Ekimklaw wrote:
Whether you believe he is real, or a figment of imagination will determine whether your question is relevant or not.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Voodoo Child wrote:
No it doesn't. If I don't believe God exists then I can still access the the coherence of the God myth.
==============================================
Look, if you believe he is real, then what difference does it make what you think he should do? He will do his will regardless. Therefore your question is moot. If you do NOT think he exists, why are we having this conversation to begin with?
==============================================
Voodoo Child wrote:
He created us perhaps, but in the same way parents don't have absolute authority over their adult children be shouldn't necessarily have authority over us.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ekimklaw wrote:
Says you. Who died and left you in charge?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Voodoo Child wrote:
No one died and left me in charge. Same for God. Generally this idea of adult autonomy is quite universally present across people and cultures.
==============================================
It is NOT up to you to determine what God should or shouldn't do. It IS up to you to believe or not. Do you understand? God is a supreme being. Implicit in that is his being totally above human comprehension. After all if he was comprehendable, he would not be GOD. That which we CAN comprehend about God is that which he has revealed to us. This revelation to us speaks of "faith" and "things unseen" and lots of other hard concepts. Included in this text is the teaching that God is soverein over his creation. Our duty is to accept or reject this notion. <period>
=============================================
Voodoo Child wrote:
He was never elected, no one put him in charge. Where does his authority come from?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ekimklaw wrote:
He created us, and in fact ALL of reality.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Voodoo Child wrote:
So? The All-Knowing has said this a few times. Now explain why you forever keep authority over something that you have created, when it is self-aware.
==============================================
Here's another analogy. Think of a top as opposed to a rotary engine. With a top one provides motion initially and leaves it to run down. With a motor on the other hand it is fueled and repaired and attended to in order that it should run for a long time. The motor requires active involvement, while the top requires initial involvment only. The Earth is more like the motor, because God is still involved.
==============================================
Voodoo Child wrote:
It is a reasonably elementary theological question, in sure it has a reasonable answer, I just don't see it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ekimklaw wrote:
That's like asking why the Earth has the right to impose the law of gravity on people of Earth. It's because the law of gravity (and many other physical laws) is part of the original setup.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vodoo Child wrote:
The problem with this analogy should be obvious to most: neither the earth nor gravity can choose not to apply themselves to people. They have no consciousness and no choice.
==============================================
No, but people sure can choose to defy gravity. Whether or not gravity can or cannot choose to apply itself to people is irrelevant. There exists today gravity. Defying it carries stiff penalties (like falling to your death). If you consider that God exists, similarly immutable MORAL laws are in place on Earth. So, the analogy is in fact a perfect one. You can claim "gravity doesn't exist" all you want to (it will still exist anyway), and choose to defy it. Just like God. But watch out. There are consequences.
==============================================
Ekimklaw wrote:
Similarly when God created the universe he created it with immutable moral laws. You are free to believe it or not.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Voodoo Child wrote:
That's just spiffy. Do we know what they are yet?
==============================================
Yeah, read the Bible.
-Mike