Who or what was called "the whore of Babylon?"

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Medicine*Woman

Jesus: Mythstory--Not History!
Valued Senior Member
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M*W: We've seen this term referred to numerous times on this forum. But who or what was "the whore of Babylon?" christians have long called the RCC "the whore of Babylon," and "the harlot" of Revelation.

Also called "the Queen of Heaven," she was also known as Ashtoreth. The ancient Hebrews, in fact, worshipped her along with their usual moon and sun gods. The Hebrew god Jahveh had been rather cold, harsh, and somewhat murderous they thought, so they took a liking to the warm, sensuous rites of Ba'al and the Mother Goddess Ashtoreth.

According to Ernest Busenbark in Symbols, Sex, and the Stars, "...the priests of Israel were called by names which signified they were astrologers or 'dividers of the heavens.'"

The bible record during the time of Ba'al and Ashtoreth states that "...now for a long season Israel hath been without the true God and without a teaching priest and without law." (II Chronicles 15:3)

During this time the ancient Hebrews consulted "observers of time, wizards, necromancers, etc.; made molten images, paid honor to the sun, moon and stars and all the host of heaven and worshipped Ba'al and Ashtoreth." (II Kings 17:9)

Egyptian custom would honor both male and female worship. In Babylonian worship of the female changed under the influence of the ancient Semites who worshipped only the male.

In ancient Israel, the status of Jewish women placed them in a category of nothing more than whores demanding pay for their services. Ezekiel 16:33, 34 claims that "Jewish women made gifts to the men who accepted their favors." Jewish women learned that having full red lips and eyelids lined with kohl attracted their customers. They would also wear bells, spangles, gold and silver leg ornaments, bracelets, earrings, nose rings and other jewels as they paraded in front of men and even stalked them on the roads.

Busenbark goes on to say that the "...scriptures do not distinguish between prostitution as a religious rite and as a social vice, but it is evident that, in both forms, the practice flourished in Judah and Israel throughout the Biblical period. Repeated references to rape, incest, seduction; the enactment of laws forbidding that Jewish women and men should become whores and Sodomites. (Deut. 23:17)

In conclusion, as much as christians call the RCC the "harlot," and the "whore of Babylon," it was the ancient Hebrews themselves who worshipped her.
 
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Rather than the Roman Catholic Church, what about Rome itself - the Empire, that is ?

The woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet color (Revelation 17:4)
Could refer to the Roman Empire. Purple especially, being the color associated with the emperor.

Further, Revelation 17:9 reads:
And here is the mind which has wisdom.
The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
Could refer to the seven hills of the city of Rome.

Also - Revelation 17:18:
And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.
At the time Revelation is presumed to have been written, that sounds like Rome.

Rev. 18 seems to go on at length describing a great city which is to fall to ruin. Given the role Imperium Romanum played inthe "Christian drama", it seems a likely candidate for the wrath of God according to the scripture of the oppressed.
Can't figure out why they would refer to it as Babylon if they meant Rome, though. Analogy to the epoch of Jewish exile in the Old Testament, perhaps ?

Just musing...
 
Interesting topic M*W. I have always thought about this, and have reached my own conclusions, to share them with you:

I believe that 2000 years ago was just as it is today. Nothing is new beneath the Sun.
Sexual energy is the most powerfull energy of Earth´s living creatures. Including, off course, us humans.

According to internet statistics, the Sex Industry is generating $57 billion dollars annually:

"- Porn revenue is larger than all combined revenues of all professional football, baseball and basketball franchises.
- US porn revenue exceeds the combined revenues of ABC, CBS, and NBC (6.2 billion)
- Child pornography generates $3 billion annually"

http://familysafemedia.com/pornography_statistics.html

So even if we try to hide it, sex is in our very nature, and the more sick we feel, the more sexual we become, because life always find a way...

It has always been like this, humans haven´t changed in 2000 years, we haven´t evolved, we are basically the same. But 2000 years ago, when there was no porno or fancy sex stuff, the sexuallity was expressed in other ways, like prostitution, or violent sex behaviour.

We treat sex as something dirty, something to be hidden, it is mostly a tabu, and let´s not get into the religious aspect of this... But sex is only natural! Our life energy is being manifested in the lower-sphere, which is the sexual, because we don´t know how to handle it, and we manifested just like the animals do, after all, we are mammals, and most people don´t control their animal instints....

This my friend, is the Big Whore of Babylon, it is how we treat sex as something dirty; and not as the sacred thing it really is...

The buddhist call it "unwise sexual behaviour", I preffer the term "Whore of Babylon". Cause it still represents how Babylon "the system" hides wisdom from the people.
 
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Killjoy said:
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Can't figure out why they would refer to it as Babylon if they meant Rome, though. Analogy to the epoch of Jewish exile in the Old Testament, perhaps ?

Just musing...
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Babylon symbolises all the great cities of the Roman Empire). I also think the Great Whore was a reference to the Roman Empire.
 
tablariddim said:
Babylon symbolises all the great cities of the Roman Empire). I also think the Great Whore was a reference to the Roman Empire.
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People have given this many interpretations:
Rome and the Roman Empire, Earthly Israel, Roman Catholic Church, United States, European Union, Soviet Union, Christendom, even British Queen Elizabeth II or Madonna...

But this is to confuse the people, Christ did not speak literally in most cases, and that is specially the case of the Apocalypse, that is something most people tend to let slip their minds.

Being Christ is about not discriminating, it is about not thinking less of the people who commit things you are against. Christ did not teach a doctrine of separation, He was all about unity. Therefore, I believe He was reffering to things that happen to all of us, even if we don´t accept them as they are.
 
Revelations was written by John, not Jesus. Revelations was also based on something that Daniel wrote previously.
 
tablariddim said:
Revelations was written by John, not Jesus. Revelations was also based on something that Daniel wrote previously.
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I´m guessing you didn´t read the prologue:

" 1The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, 2who testifies to everything he saw—that is, the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ. 3Blessed is the one who reads the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near." (Rev 1,1).
 
draqon said:
power of will is the strongest energy of a living creature...
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Aieee, Chihuahua...

Have you been reading Fred ?

" A living thing seeks above all to discharge its strength — life itself is will to power "
 
I know what I´m saying is kind of downgrading, but we need to accept the truth, not hipocresy. Why lie about it?

A normal guy gets an average of about 11 erections per day and another 5 while sleeping, with a duration of half an hour each.

About 17% of women are addicted to porn, I don´t know about males.

We are animals, we gotta accept that.
 
Wisdom_Seeker said:
Yes, the will to have sex man.

I don´t see "will" becoming a $57 billion industry.
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M*W: Sex is a very natural need. The success of the porn industry is what happens when people shun their natural urges. When natural sexual activity is suppressed, it will rear its ugly head in something abnormal and perverted. Take the sexually repressed catholic priests. Their natural urges were stifled and they came out in the perversion of molesting children who couldn't protect themselves from their predators.
 
Medicine*Woman said:
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M*W: Sex is a very natural need. The success of the porn industry is what happens when people shun their natural urges. When natural sexual activity is suppressed, it will rear its ugly head in something abnormal and perverted. Take the sexually repressed catholic priests. Their natural urges were stifled and they came out in the perversion of molesting children who couldn't protect themselves from their predators.
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I agree totally.
Sex is not only natural, but is the strongest energy we have, the life energy is sexual energy in its basics. So if we try to supress that energy, it will only have bad consequences to ones nature.
 
According to the Scriptures namely Revelation..

the Great Harlot called Babylon the Great is the world empire of False Religion. She is described as a Harlot because of continual depraved acts Religion has had with World leaders or nations throughout time.

The Tower of Babel was the first mass out break of false religion and it has since spread unchecked. The Roman Catholic Church has entertained heads of state in just the very same way...even knowing that God required his organization on Earth to not be part of the world.
 
Saquist said:
According to the Scriptures namely Revelation..

the Great Harlot called Babylon the Great is the world empire of False Religion. She is described as a Harlot because of continual depraved acts Religion has had with World leaders or nations throughout time.

The Tower of Babel was the first mass out break of false religion and it has since spread unchecked. The Roman Catholic Church has entertained heads of state in just the very same way...even knowing that God required his organization on Earth to not be part of the world.
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M*W: Then what you are saying is that Revelation must have been written AFTER the RCC came into effect. Not surprising, since some biblical scholars believe Revelation to be written circa 120 AD, but then, this would be impossible, since the RCC didn't actually come about until almost 400 AD. Revelation would have to have been written after this time unless the Romans wrote Revelation. In that case, it could have been much earlier. What's more, this would lend credence to the Roman writers actually creating the harlot themselves.
 
Revelations is prophetic and is written as other Prophetic prophesy's in the bible, as though the event had already occured. Revelations was written by John. There are enough information to conclude that it is the same John of the Christ's Twelve.

John seemed to understand the significance of Babylon on the world scene in past and future repects. Daniels prophecies displayed Babylon as the Gold head of a statue. This was rightly so as Babylon was the first nation to succeed against God's holy nation.

Babylon has been destroyed today according to prophecy. It exist as ruins and an appropriately marked sign for tourist.

John understood that which Jesus said would occur. That there would be imposters and apostates among us. They eventually took over the Christian congregation whent he last of the Apostles die. No wonder the very institution which executed Jesus Christ then became popular. The Romans did what they did best. Assimilate.
 
Saquist said:
Revelations is prophetic and is written as other Prophetic prophesy's in the bible, as though the event had already occured. Revelations was written by John. There are enough information to conclude that it is the same John of the Christ's Twelve.

John seemed to understand the significance of Babylon on the world scene in past and future repects. Daniels prophecies displayed Babylon as the Gold head of a statue. This was rightly so as Babylon was the first nation to succeed against God's holy nation.

Babylon has been destroyed today according to prophecy. It exist as ruins and an appropriately marked sign for tourist.

John understood that which Jesus said would occur. That there would be imposters and apostates among us. They eventually took over the Christian congregation whent he last of the Apostles die. No wonder the very institution which executed Jesus Christ then became popular. The Romans did what they did best. Assimilate.
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"Although the traditional view still has many adherents, many modern scholars believe that John the Apostle, John the Evangelist, and John of Patmos refer to three separate individuals. Certain lines of evidence suggest that John of Patmos wrote only Revelation, not the Gospel of John nor the Epistles of John. For one, the author of Revelation identifies himself as "John" several times, but the author of the Gospel of John never identifies himself directly. While both works liken Jesus to a lamb, they consistently use different words for lamb when referring to him — the Gospel uses amnos, Revelation uses arnion.[7] Lastly, the Gospel is written in nearly flawless Greek, but Revelation contains grammatical errors and stylistic abnormalities which indicate its author may not have been as familiar with the Greek language as the Gospel's author.


"According to early tradition, the writing of this book took place near the very end of Domitian's reign, around 95 or 96 AC. Others contend for an earlier date, 68 or 69 AC, in the reign of Nero or shortly thereafter.[9] The majority of modern scholars also use these dates.[10]Those who are in favor of the later date appeal to the external testimony of the Christian father Irenaeus (d. 185), who stated that he had received information relative to this book from those who had seen John face to face. He says that the Apocalypse "was seen no very long time since, but almost in our day, towards the end of Domitian's reign" (A.H. 5.30.3), who according to Eusebius had started the persecution referred to in the book. However, recent scholars dispute that the book is situated in a time of ongoing persecution and have also doubted the reality of a large-scale Domitian persecution.[11]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Revelation
 
And yet...

The book of Revelation is self identifying clearly in the first chapter. Many historians do not recognize that people changed and mold over time. It is not possible to truely doubt the scritpure text 2000 years removed and consider that doubt reliable over the reliablity of the scritpures themselves.
 
Saquist said:
And yet...

The book of Revelation is self identifying clearly in the first chapter. Many historians do not recognize that people changed and mold over time. It is not possible to truely doubt the scritpure text 2000 years removed and consider that doubt reliable over the reliablity of the scritpures themselves.
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So, first John wrote perfect Greek when he wrote the Gospel, and then decided to go for the slang and gramatical errors in Revelations?

I don´t think so really. But its a matter of faith after all.
 
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