who made god?

C

codanblad

a love of bridges
Registered Senior Member
seems a popular argument for christians to use, that god must exist because who made the universe? well who made god? if its possible for god to simply come into existence, why can't the universe do it?

i understand that god by definition is the entity which existed before everything else, but surely whatever power allows him to exist first, could be bestowed upon the universe. and perhaps the universe doesn't have the consciousness, or control of all things which god has. perhaps the force which created the universe has expired, or left our universe?
 
Considering some of the hilariously whacky things some christians beleive, why are you expecting them to make any sense?
 
everything has a beginning, except everything (the universe). and god is everything because god is in everything. the universe is all the matter and god is the spirit/consciousness that makes it alive. without god there would be no universe. god makes the universe come into being.

Destroyer said:
For something to always exists, it wouldnt have had a point of creation.
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if god had a point of creation, he would be a creation, and not the creator.
 
Yorda, you have conversed with this universal "consciousness"? Or tapped into a way of "feeling" it?

From my layman observations, the Universe is in fact 99.9999~% -> Dead.
 
codanblad said:
seems a popular argument for christians to use, that god must exist because who made the universe? well who made god? if its possible for god to simply come into existence, why can't the universe do it?

i understand that god by definition is the entity which existed before everything else, but surely whatever power allows him to exist first, could be bestowed upon the universe. and perhaps the universe doesn't have the consciousness, or control of all things which god has. perhaps the force which created the universe has expired, or left our universe?
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I guess that just leaves you with the problem of how change and variety comes to exist in the universe.
What could cause an eternal non-conscious substance to react with itself?
:scratchin:
 
he was so frustrated with playing 'i spy' and having nothing to say, that gosh darnit he just had to make the universe.
 
I think in your haste to say something entertaining you missed the point

Change and variety would be eternal - provided that which it is contingent on is conscious of course
 
Codanblad,

Just because you lack the intellect to understand something does not mean it does not exist in some form or another.

Look at it this way: Centuries ago people would have thought you were crazy if you told them that one day man would be able to hold a human heart in their hands while performing surgery.

In this way we can conclude that once you know how something is done it becomes easy or at least possible.


Edit:Not to be confused with fundamentalism
 
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codanblad said:
seems a popular argument for christians to use, that god must exist because who made the universe? well who made god? if its possible for god to simply come into existence, why can't the universe do it?
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Yup. And, there could have been 5 Gods that always existed. Or 3. Or it could be that a God (or Gods) made the Universe and then died and ceased to exist.

Ever notice how people are happy to say God blah blah blah and He did such and such... BUT they feel so uncomfortable saying She did such and such?

People wants their Sky-Daddy.

Michael
 
John99,

Just to make sure we do actually agree. which I think we do.
Do you agree with the following statements:

1) Yes God may exist.
2) Yes Gods may exist.
3) Yes God may not exist.
4) Yes Gods may not exist.
5) Yes the universe may be eternal.
6) Yes the universe may have been created in situ 1 minute ago.
7) Yes Xenu may exist.
8) Yes Xenu may not exist.

:)
Michael
 
John99 said:
Codanblad,

Just because you lack the intellect to understand something does not mean it does not exist in some form or another.

Look at it this way: Centuries ago people would have thought you were crazy if you told them that one day man would be able to hold a human heart in their hands while performing surgery.

In this way we can conclude that once you know how something is done it becomes easy or at least possible.

Edit:Not to be confused with fundamentalism
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my experience of god has only been through reading the bible, and i reckon its ridiculous. so why would i believe that god knows better than me, when only the bible tells me that. other than people who are just repeating whats written in the bible, though they're perhaps deluded enough to believe they've felt god's presence.

today if you tell someone you believe in the roman gods, they'll think you're crazy. and that was the main religion of an empire. how long til christianity crumbles? look at history, in this way we can conclude most religions are man made and full of it.


Destroyer said:
God is apparently the only entity not to have been created, but to have always existed. For something to always exists, it wouldnt have had a point of creation. You are stuck in the 4th dimension of time.

Love.gif
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i felt this best answered my question. it's purely a matter of faith, but its theologically sound, and that's all it needs to be part of a religion.
 
I'm an atheist.

I'm also am ardent consumer of heavy metal music.

What I wonder about is why so many non-believers -- fellow heavy metalists, and fellow atheists -- devote so much of their existence obsessing over the non-existant.

Non-belief isn't about brow beating believers into non-belief. That's not going to happen. Same as believers can't brow beat us into believing.

Atheism is about having no rational reason to believe in the unknowable.

Then again, so is belief.

Atheism isn't about negatively getting personal. It's about being skeptical.

Disrespect the idea, if you are of the inclination. Don't disrespect the persons.

You can not disprove what they can not prove.

You can't defend the rational by irrational means.
 
*************
M*W: "Who made god?" The question is moot, because there is no "god." However, a more plausible answer is that ancient humans (mostly male humans) created the idea of a supreme being god from observing the day skies (sun) and the night skies (moon, planets, stars) which they made-up stories about. Over the millenia, the myths remained the same. The names of the constellations were changed so they could to create new myths.

"There is nothing new under the sun."
 
codanblad said:
i understand that god by definition is the entity which existed before everything else
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I'm curious where you read that definition.
I've never read it.


lightgigantic said:
Change and variety would be eternal - provided that which it is contingent on is conscious of course
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I don't see how change necessarily requires consciousness.

codanblad said:
today if you tell someone you believe in the roman gods, they'll think you're crazy.
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It depends on who you tell.
There are still quite a few people who believe in them.

From reading your posts, I get the impression you have a very limited knowledge of different religions and a very myopic worldview.

This is what you have heard about people a, so this is fact and since this fact makes no sense to you, people a must be deluded idiots.

Until you get out more and learn more and experience more first hand, perhaps you would do well to ask more questions and make less statements.
 
one_raven said:
I'm curious where you read that definition.
I've never read it.

From reading your posts, I get the impression you have a very limited knowledge of different religions and a very myopic worldview.

This is what you have heard about people a, so this is fact and since this fact makes no sense to you, people a must be deluded idiots.

Until you get out more and learn more and experience more first hand, perhaps you would do well to ask more questions and make less statements.
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firstly, go fuck yourself.

i'm an atheist, i'm asking people to explain something to me. i understand all sources of information are biased and must be evaluated, i'm not that naive. i'm studying islam as an open elective at uni (doing bach. psych), i was raised a protestant. i can understand you mistaking the nature of my posts, and assuming i'm another blindly zealous christian, but you're wrong. i'm just trying to discuss an issue i had with god being created, which i got good answers to.

when was the last time you saw a roman god church, or congregation. i've never seen one. pretty sure they're a minority. although maybe everyone except me is secretly worshipping them, who knows.

ask more questions? what's the post called and who made it? i made a couple of assumptions, cos i wanted answers to a specific question.

when you have such a limited amount of information as a couple of posts, perhaps you would do well to be less presumptious and not try and stereotype me. if you didn't go and fuck yourself at the start of post, and read the whole thing instead, i still think you're a dickhead.
 
am just wondering, would ne1 agree with me that god existed before everything else? assuming god exists and is creator of the universe etc. pretty much going with the christian god. else i would have called him allah or ra or something.
 
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