Who is this God that people are talking about?

[Dunn11x]

Ya see? Right there's your problem. You think faith is a good thing. Religious faith is a fully conscious adoption of blind stupidity and an admission of mental incapacity.

Please explain, if you would, how in matters of objective reality (does god really exist? Etc...) a policy of unquestioning submission to anything is smart? Or wise? Or rational?

Do you accept on faith the word of your accountant that all is well and you don't have any need to see your quarterly statements?

Of course not. You only "believe" because you were born into a culture so dumbed down and dependent on peer acceptance that you had almost no choice.

You're an adult now (I assume). You have a choice to give up the easter bunny.

I don't say that to have to Faith in everything is a good thing, but rather to have faith in God; don't have faith in this Earth that will surely one day end, but have faith in God who will not end. Have faith in God that he will save you from the end.

Yes, we do have a choice. We have a choice on everything we do just about, I call this free will. I choose to have faith in God, others may not. That is there choice given by God who they choose not to have faith in.

Adam and Eve had a choice and they chose. God told them that if they Eat from the Tree of Knowledge that they will surely die. They listened to the Devil and ate from the tree and they died from the choice that they made. They did not die right away, but they did die. One could say that if they would have never eaten from the tree then all would know God and no one would be tempted from Satan because they chose to listen to God and avoid temptation.

But that is not what happened, and I have faith in that.

 

[Photizo]

God is not Human...

God is Human by means of the Incarnation...and when reading passages such as John 17, or musing upon the Pauline and Johannine teachings concerning the Mystical Union of The Bridegroom (Christ) and The Bride (The Church), one discovers some exceedingly wonderful and magnificent truths:

For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh. This is a profound mystery--but I am talking about Christ and the church.

...as you say, "Let those who will, understand."

 

[superluminal]

I don't say that to have to Faith in everything is a good thing, but rather to have faith in God; don't have faith in this Earth that will surely one day end, but have faith in God who will not end. Have faith in God that he will save you from the end.

Yes, we do have a choice. We have a choice on everything we do just about, I call this free will. I choose to have faith in God, others may not. That is there choice given by God who they choose not to have faith in.

Adam and Eve had a choice and they chose. God told them that if they Eat from the Tree of Knowledge that they will surely die. They listened to the Devil and ate from the tree and they died from the choice that they made. They did not die right away, but they did die. One could say that if they would have never eaten from the tree then all would know God and no one would be tempted from Satan because they chose to listen to God and avoid temptation.

But that is not what happened, and I have faith in that.

Well, you see, the real question is, exactly why you chose (which I doubt) to have faith in this story. Except for being born into an overwhelmingly religious society, what reason could you have to accept it as truth? What did you have to do to turn off the part of your brain (the curious, rational, self-respecting part) that you probably use in every other aspect of your life?

And knowing full well that this story you accept is based purely on faith, how do you maintain your intellectual integrity?

 

[superluminal]

God is Human by means of the Incarnation...and when reading passages such as John 17, or musing upon the Pauline and Johannine teachings on the Mystical Union of the Bridegroom and Bride, one discovers some exceedingly wonderful and magnificent truths...as you say, "Let those who will, understand."

Do you put any less stock in the teachings of science regarding the nature of the universe?

 

[Photizo]

Do you put any less stock in the teachings of science regarding the nature of the universe?

I put far less stock "in the teachings of science regarding the nature of the universe", yes, though science can reveal to us many things.

God's Word declares in Psalm 119:160--"Thy Word is true from the beginning, and every one of Thy righteous ordinaces endureth forever." His Word is True. If we remain within the parameters of God's Word, then we can be assured He is not decieving us when He tells us about say,the creation story. When we choose to leave the sanctuary of His Word, all bets are off. We are then on our own, "deceiving and being deceived".

"Why would God deceive us?" (Creating the universe with the appearance of age) Because you wanted to be deceived so He leaves you to your own devices (carbon/radiometric dating etc.) which include, again, "deceiving and being deceived"...by rejecting God's Creation account you demonstrate you do not possess "the love of the truth"...that you "will not endure sound doctrine, but in accordance with your own lusts/desires, you prefer to heap to yourselves teachers who turn you from God's Truth and unto fables...willfully choosing to "believe the lie" and having "pleasure in unrighteousness" as declared by God the Holy Spirit through Paul in 2 Thessalonians 2:8-12 and 2 Timothy 4.

 

[Dunn11x]

Well, you see, the real question is, exactly why you chose (which I doubt) to have faith in this story. Except for being born into an overwhelmingly religious society, what reason could you have to accept it as truth? What did you have to do to turn off the part of your brain (the curious, rational, self-respecting part) that you probably use in every other aspect of your life?

And knowing full well that this story you accept is based purely on faith, how do you maintain your intellectual integrity?

I was given a miracle and I consider my self to be blessed because I have witnessed the power of God with my own eyes (which I believe is far greater than what I was shown). This may not seem big to many people or like you said you doubt what I will say, but I do not speak for those who have already chosen not to believe and will not, but to those who will choose to believe. I only quote you to show the meaning of me telling what I have to tell in the manner of which I do.

When I was a young boy I had an in-grown wart on the bottom or in the bottom of my foot. My parents could not afford to have it removed and I did not have insurance to help. It grew to cause pain and annoyance so one night my mom prayed with me and asked God to remove it and the next morning there was no sign of the wart which up until that point had only grown. I had no dream that I remember or heard no voice, but I have faith that God answer my prayer. And that is a miracle I have been blessed with, no matter how small it may seem. I see it as not the wart being removed but God telling me he does exist and he does care.

 

[superluminal]

God's Word declares in Psalm 119:160--"Thy Word is true from the beginning, and every one of Thy righteous ordinaces endureth forever." His Word is True.

I have a serious question for you. Can you try to answer honestly and forthrightly and without biblical references, like a regular guy, ya know?

The above quote is at the heart of why many non-believers feel the way they do toward the faithful. It says, in essence,

"Gods word is true because god says it's true".

It's purely circular. It's not even subtlely circular like some of the more "advanced" arguements for god's existence. It's a simple, tight little circle that even young children see right through (they question it in many ways and have it drilled right back into them until they tire of questioning).

My question is, how do you justify to yourself such an abandonment of simple reason?

Thanks.

 

[superluminal]

I see it as not the wart being removed but God telling me he does exist and he does care.

Ok. Fine. Now consider this:

How many people with similar problems (maybe it's a wart, or a cyst, etc.) do you think pray for some kind of help with their problem? Let's just say it's pretty common in the world. So if even only 10% of the adult population of the world did this, that still might be around 200 to 300 million people.

Now, statistically it would be even a more compelling proof of god if no one ever had a positive outcome from their praying. As it happens, enough studies have shown that the general result of prayer for specific outcomes is essentially nothing.

But out of those millions of people, some portion will definitely have a result by simple coincidence. You are one of the millions of people every year who fall into this category.

The guy that wins the lottery isn't blessed - he's just lucky.

 

[Photizo]

My question is, how do you justify to yourself such an abandonment of simple reason?

Thanks.

Because--to put it as simply as possible--the God I observe...Who is revealed in the pages of the Bible... is, to me, worthy of my total trust.

 

[superluminal]

Because, to put it as simply as possible, the God I observe, Who is revealed in the pages of the Bible is, to me, worthy of my total trust.

I see. Thanks.

 

[Dunn11x]

God is Human by means of the Incarnation...and when reading passages such as John 17, or musing upon the Pauline and Johannine teachings concerning the Mystical Union of The Bridegroom (Christ) and The Bride (The Church), one discovers some exceedingly wonderful and magnificent truths:

For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh. This is a profound mystery--but I am talking about Christ and the church.

...as you say, "Let those who will, understand."

God is not human, but was shown to us in Human form by God to be our sacrifice for our sins; blood is the price for sin. If that is what you mean I was not sure.

When trying to rationalize the mysteries of God and or his Kindgom you play into the human side of your self which is easily corrupted by the Devil. I am not saying you are, I am just saying you must be careful not to become corrupted. It is said that it is best not to play with fire and gasoline at the same time.

 

[Photizo]

God is not human, but was shown to us in Human form by God to be our sacrifice for our sins; blood is the price for sin. If that is what you mean I was not sure.

When trying to rationalize the mysteries of God and or his Kindgom you play into the human side of your self which is easily corrupted by the Devil. I am not saying you are, I am just saying you must be careful not become corrupted. It is said that it is best not to play with fire and gasoline at the same time.

*pats you on the head*

Take care now...

 

[superluminal]

When trying to rationalize the mysteries of God and or his Kindgom you play into the human side of your self which is easily corrupted by the Devil.

Thank you for that statement! This is highly instructive to non-believers such as myself.

Let me loosely rephrase your statement (it's a classic, btw).

"Don't question god or you'll go to hell"

That's really the beauty of your system (religion). It's irrationality is self reinforcing. It's beautiful! As an engineer I completely appreciate the negative feedback mechanism inherent there.

 

[Photizo]

I see. Thanks.

You're quite welcome.

 

[Dunn11x]

Ok. Fine. Now consider this:

How many people with similar problems (maybe it's a wart, or a cyst, etc.) do you think pray for some kind of help with their problem? Let's just say it's pretty common in the world. So if even only 10% of the adult population of the world did this, that still might be around 200 to 300 million people.

Now, statistically it would be even a more compelling proof of god if no one ever had a positive outcome from their praying. As it happens, enough studies have shown that the general result of prayer for specific outcomes is essentially nothing.

But out of those millions of people, some portion will definitely have a result by simple coincidence. You are one of the millions of people every year who fall into this category.

The guy that wins the lottery isn't blessed - he's just lucky.

People will believe what they will believe. I choose to believe in God. There is a reason behind everything even if someone chooses not to see it. Just because you don't doesn't mean it does not.

If you have faith, even the size of a mustard seed, then you have the power to move a mountain; which is an analogy. Because only Gods will be done.

 

[superluminal]

People will believe what they will believe.

Yes.

And this is the underlying reason for all of the religio-philosophical debates here or anywhere.

Why does one group function on reason, while the other group functions on emotional mysticism?

And I fully understand that no amount of logic or reasoning will sway most believers, and no amount of appeals to emotion or fear will sway most non-believers.

Interesting.

 

[stretched]

Cris:

"That would appear to create an impossible mess. The cause of all causes would itself be a cause which would imply it would cause itself. This is an impossible circular condition."

Thank DOG your`e back mate.

 

[lightgigantic]

*************
M*W: Why is it that you people (theists) think that the only way someone could possibly be an atheist is that they must be bitter?

I wasn't talking about atheists generally - I was talking about you specifically - anyone can browse your previous posts to see why

You've just made a positive claim that I am bitter! You don't know me, and you surely don't know my feelings about anything.

Your false assumption proves your ignorance.

so you are arguing that the views expressed in your posts are not your own?

I know that no deity exists just like you know that it does.

the problem is that if one of us has recourse to direct perception, this statement tends to cause problems

That's why you are totally wrong about my being bitter. Why would anyone be bitter because there is no god?

you tell us ...

That doesn't make sense. You, OTOH, believe there is a god, and it is obvious that you are the bitter one in your exhaustive quest to defend the lie you believe.

erm - once again you are skirting around the issue of how you know god is a lie

Your lengthy posts do nothing to prove there is a god.

prove that they don't
(to answer that you may be required to read one or two of them)

You are excessively defensive about protecting the lies you believe!

first of all establish the truth of your statements, then I might have something to defend - you are confusing your emotive reaction for a coherent argument

Shakespeare would have said that you "doth protest too much!" Your posts reek of defensiveness, but I really shouldn't comment on this, because the truth of the matter is, I don't waste my time reading your inane posts.

and you know my posts are lies?
"biased" is usually a term reserved for persons who pass judgments without listening/reading

However, I read this one, since it was directed to me, and now I find that there is no logical reason for me to have any further contact with you on this subject.

no doubt because you are bitter

 

[lightgigantic]

LG,

That would appear to create an impossible mess. The cause of all causes would itself be a cause which would imply it would cause itself. This is an impossible circular condition.

unless the original cause has recourse to being outside of the medium of time

even if you want to argue that the material creation is eternal and infinite, that still leaves you with the impossible mess of trying to explain why there are observable laws of nature in this world.

In otherwords, regardless whether you accept or reject the notion of god, you have to accept a cause that has no cause

Am I to understand that this is a form of supplement you take for mental agility?

Hey it was previous working definition for "car" and i am just at the brink of accepting that I may have to work with a more practical one. Despite this I am still attached to my old definition (sob) - I .... I ... I have had this understanding since I was a teenager (breaks down in tears)

 

[Dunn11x]

The proof that light can be created from sound when applied upon water that has been made to bubble is evident in Sonoluminescence. Solomuniescense can be made to be stable in that a single bubble will expand and collapse over and over again in a periodic fashion, emitting a burst of light each time it collapses. This occurs when a standing acoustic wave is applied within a liquid, and the bubble (that can be pre-existing or caused by a process known as cavitation) sits at a pressure anti-node of the standing wave. The frequencies of resonance all depend on the size and shape of the container that the bubble is in. We have to use a container because we currently have no way of containing water with out some form of container, and the size of a lake or pond is currently to big and is also suseptible to more variables.

The wave length of the light that is emitted is very shot; the spectrum can reach into ultraviolet. Shorter wavelenghts of light has higher energy. The Measuered spectrum of emitted light indicates a tempurature of at least 20,000 kelvins and up to the possible temperature of one megakelvin. It has also speculated that the inner temperature of the bubble could reach as high as one gigakelvin, which opens the door to thermonuclear fusion. If the temperature in side the bubble is high enough and the pressure is great enough, this could produce fusion reactions in side the bubble that are like that of the sun and other stars. This is sometimes referred to as bubble fusion.

Now the link to Genesis is: “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. The earth was empty, a formless mass cloaked in darkness (which is represented to be water in verse 6 of my Bible) . And the Spirit of God was hovering over its surface”; the Spirit of God (made a magnetic field) caused there to be bubbles in the water. “Then God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.” God spoke into the bubbling water causing the waters to expand and collapse over and over again emitting light; thus there was light (Sun) and so forth.

Gods voice can be anything he wants it to be, so I’m sure he could match the right wave length.