Who is brainwashed?

[moonman]

I've seen the words 'brainwashed' thrown arround here and there.

I'll make it clear on which side I stand, while trying to be as objective about this as possible.

If a child is told all the while it's growing up that God is responsible for creating the world by it's parents or teachers, and that there is such a thing as 'sin' and it will go to a terrible place called Hell if it commits one of these sins, that child will when grown up often believe in God with unquestionable faith.
The child has been told over and over again about god. The child is essentialy brainwashed, or rather it has been taught to block out doubt in god(Ofcourse God exists!!!). It is perhaps even incapable of doubting god.
I think this would be a valid example of the average highly religious person, their parents were religious and as a result so are they if they are brought up in the right environment.
I've known those who have had the exact opposite result.

I've seen religious individuals throw the brainwashed lable at atheists. I don't think the average atheist was told over and over again 'god doesn't exist' as a child.
Most of our beliefs are heavily based on what we've been taught as a child. These beliefs stick with us as we are growing up. I was told 'I don't know' when I asked why things like 'why is the sky blue' (now i do, light refracts as it travels from a less dense medium to a denser one along with dust particles, we simple see the higher end of the spectrum (blue) )

So who is brain washed? Or should I say, why are so many people still so religious. Is it a result of childhood beliefs.

 

[Xelios]

A good point. I've been called brainwashed by a couple theists before, which surprises me because all through my childhood I was actually told over and over again that God does exist. Now I don't believe he does, I don't see where the brainwashing could have taken place.

The majority of atheists I've talked to have gone through the same thing, brought up to believe in some particular religion and later realizing God doesn't exist. Logically, it's the majority of theists that are brainwashed. They are taught all through their life that God exists beyond a shadow of a doubt, they are dragged to church, given lectures on God by their parents, some are even 'forced' to read the Bible.

 

[Voodoo Child]

The term seems to imply there is something loathsome about admitting that we are a product of our culture and upbringing. I blame this on our upbringing and our parents' values. The vast majority of Christians, if they were born in India, would be Hindu. Whatsupall would be expounding the unique and superior properties of Brahman in ALL CAPS and certain other people would have a hindi flavoured brand of smugness. Ditto, for atheists: highly educated people with a secular upbringing would most likely be atheisticy or agnosticy. With different influences they could be Raelian.

 

[CounslerCoffee]

The majority of atheists I've talked to have gone through the same thing, brought up to believe in some particular religion and later realizing God doesn't exist. Logically, it's the majority of theists that are brainwashed. They are taught all through their life that God exists beyond a shadow of a doubt, they are dragged to church, given lectures on God by their parents, some are even 'forced' to read the Bible.

That never happend to me. I never go to church, yet Im a theist. I think that it really doesnt matter. Once you reach a certain age you either go "Yeah, God does exist blah blah blah." or "Nope. No evidence, so I don't believe it. Blah blah blah." I really wouldnt say that anyone is brainwashed, except maybe a select few.

BTW, I think that Ive found a respectful religion, http://www.rael.org

 

[Cris]

Counsler,

Raelians? Are you joking?

 

[Weedguy]

I do believe that most if not all religons try to unife there beliefs with each other simply by throwing out statements when your a child or even when your an adult. Personally the whole preacher calling himself a shepard and everyone else in the church being a sheep and small things like that continued over and over again every Sunday of your life shapes how you think. I myself would not be considered an adult by any of you i am a teenager and i was told my whole life god made the world and other stuff but i choose to figure things out for myself and i feel i should be able to question every religon or even athesits beliefs to further benfit myself by not being pulled into being a christan or athesit or cult activist or whatever.

 

[CounslerCoffee]

Raelians? Are you joking?

I have a very open mind. Im taking in all consideration's. But really, I was talking to an atheist and he said that he would rather have me believe that aliens created us, instead of God. He said that it made more sense to.

 

[Cris]

Counsler,

I have a very open mind. Im taking in all consideration's. But really, I was talking to an atheist and he said that he would rather have me believe that aliens created us, instead of God. He said that it made more sense to.

OK fair enough.

You understand the current controversy surrounding their claims for having cloned the first human right? They have also just made a second claim about another cloned baby. But these are just claims. No evidence has been produced and the delay seems very suspicious. There is also significant doubt by the experts in the field that they have the ability to achieve these feats. At the moment they lack any credibility.

I enjoyed reading their website and at the superficial level it almost seems believable.

My major objection is why would aliens who had such advanced science to produce us then leave us alone to fend for ourselves? If true then why would we have any respect for them? Remember if they were so advanced at genetics then it would be pretty certain that they would be fully aware of infectious and other diseases. Why would they leave us alone for several thousand years under such atrocious conditions, where many millions have died from terrible diseases that they would surely have been able to prevent?

The obvious reason is that no such aliens ever visited us.

My other objection comes from a transhumanist perspective where it is expected that the human race is about to undergo some major changes to achieve super intelligence. If true, then the likelihood of an advanced alien race having similar very limited capabilities as humans are now also lacks credibility.

Also the story of aliens apparently randomly choosing to visit an ordinary person and expecting him to take the message to the world is, well, ludicrous. It screams of a scam. Have you read the origins of Mormonism? The story is almost identical, with some insignificant person being visited by god who gave him some magical golden tablets, which of course soon vanished without trace. The guy even had a history of being a confidence trickster.

It also looks like they do good business in their virtual shop selling their books. A claim of having created the first clone should boost their sales beyond all recognition.

If they ever produce evidence and proof of having created a human clone then I’ll revisit them from that perspective, but otherwise they have no more evidence that aliens have visited us than there is evidence that gods exist, e.g. zero.

 

[whatsupyall]

I've seen the words 'brainwashed' thrown arround here and there.

I'll make it clear on which side I stand, while trying to be as objective about this as possible.

If a child is told (or hear others tell them so) all the while it's growing up that morality is unneccessary and God is just an imagination like "giant purple squid monkey" by the world, by it's parents, friends or teachers, and that there is no such a thing as 'sin' or truth, there is no right from wrong. A place called Hell is made up for financial gain (whatever the reason is. That child will when grown up often believe God dont exist with unquestionable faith.
The child has been told over and over again about myths. The child is essentialy brainwashed, or rather it has been taught to block out morality and god with it (Of course God dont exists!!!). It is perhaps even incapable of doubting God dont exist.
I think this would be a valid example of the average highly brainwashed atheists person, their parents were non-religious (or was but treated them badly), and same with friends, and as a result so are they if they are brought up in the right environment.
I've known those who have had the exact opposite result.

I've seen atheists individuals throw the brainwashed lable at theists. I don't think the average theist was told over and over again 'that god exist' as a child, TAKE ME AS AN EXAMPLE, I WASNT TOLD OVER AND OVER AGAIN GOD EXIST, IN FACT I WAS ONCE AN ATHEISTS THROUGH PARTS OF MY TEEN YEARS, BUT MATURITY TOOK ITS TOLL, I NOW ACCEPT GOD (PLUS I HAVE EXPERIENCED HIM)....

Most of our beliefs are heavily based on what we've been taught as a child. These beliefs stick with us as we are growing up. I was told 'I don't know' when I asked why things exist by luck (now i do, they are deluded with a wreong judgment, considering a belief that is COMPLETELY illogical WITHOUT a doubt.)

So who is brain washed? Or should I say, why are so many people still so religious? Because many have experienced him, and many have common sense, REALIZING THAT ERRORS ARE ALWAYS WITHIN HUMANITY, WITH OR WITHOUT RELIGION, IF JOHN TOLD MIKE TO DO GOOD, AND IF MIKE STILL DID EVIL, JOHN WHO TOLD MIKE TO DO GOOD SHOULD NOT BE BLAIMED FOR THE EVIL ACT MIKE COMMITED...

1+1=2....WHAT IS SO HARD ABOUT THAT ATHEISTS KIDS???

 

[Xev]

Re: Who is brainwashed?

I've seen the words 'brainwashed' thrown arround here and there.

I'll make it clear on which side I stand, while trying to be as objective about this as possible.

If a child is told (or hear others tell them so) all the while it's growing up that morality is unneccessary and God is just an imagination like "giant purple squid monkey" by the world, by it's parents, friends or teachers, and that there is no such a thing as 'sin' or truth, there is no right from wrong. A place called Hell is made up for financial gain (whatever the reason is. That child will when grown up often believe God dont exist with unquestionable faith.
The child has been told over and over again about myths. The child is essentialy brainwashed, or rather it has been taught to block out morality and god with it (Of course God dont exists!!!). It is perhaps even incapable of doubting God dont exist.
I think this would be a valid example of the average highly brainwashed atheists person, their parents were non-religious (or was but treated them badly), and same with friends, and as a result so are they if they are brought up in the right environment.
I've known those who have had the exact opposite result.

I've seen atheists individuals throw the brainwashed lable at theists. I don't think the average theist was told over and over again 'that god exist' as a child, TAKE ME AS AN EXAMPLE, I WASNT TOLD OVER AND OVER AGAIN GOD EXIST, IN FACT I WAS ONCE AN ATHEISTS THROUGH PARTS OF MY TEEN YEARS, BUT MATURITY TOOK ITS TOLL, I NOW ACCEPT GOD (PLUS I HAVE EXPERIENCED HIM)....

Most of our beliefs are heavily based on what we've been taught as a child. These beliefs stick with us as we are growing up. I was told 'I don't know' when I asked why things exist by luck (now i do, they are deluded with a wreong judgment, considering a belief that is COMPLETELY illogical WITHOUT a doubt.)

So who is brain washed? Or should I say, why are so many people still so religious? Because many have experienced him, and many have common sense, REALIZING THAT ERRORS ARE ALWAYS WITHIN HUMANITY, WITH OR WITHOUT RELIGION, IF JOHN TOLD MIKE TO DO GOOD, AND IF MIKE STILL DID EVIL, JOHN WHO TOLD MIKE TO DO GOOD SHOULD NOT BE BLAIMED FOR THE EVIL ACT MIKE COMMITED...

1+1=2....WHAT IS SO HARD ABOUT THAT ATHEISTS KIDS???

This is absolutely surreal.

 

[CounslerCoffee]

Cris,

Okay. I know about the current scandal, Im just checking everything out. But let me ask a question anyway....

Would you rather believe that Jesus was born in a barn, and that he is the son of God? Or would you rather believe that aliens visited in 1970 and told one man to spread their word?

/CounslerCoffee

 

[divine sapience]

neutral perspective

brainwashed and controlled by the media...subliminals ,unseen frequencies,government population control,conspiracy,forgeting your divinity,blocking out truth ,and materializing your eyes and religion is division of the true ONE whole
peace

 

[doom]

Originally posted by Xev
This is absolutely surreal.

Your right,the geezer is a fruit.

 

[doom]

The only argument religion has for them is probably using the
watch on your wrist as an example,
a watch is complicated,but the universe is more complicated,
you wouldnt assume a watch comes from knowhere,so you wouldnt assume the universe comes from knowhere,
and thus for both you need a maker.

I agree in a first cause,but i dont know what it was.
Its all too easy to suggest a superior being watching over us,
to me it seems archaic.

 

[moonman]

whatsupyall-

Do you realy think that we are going to take you seriously if you insult us and display such hostility towards our opinions.
I respect your firm-mindedness and your devotion, I simply ask that you respect my right to express myself without directly jumping to deny my reasoning and rationality.

Have a nice day.

 

[doom]

I used to question it too much,
im english and here in britain i dont think religion is quiet as strong as in the US,
as i say i questioned it alot,like who made god?
how did adam make eve with his rib? why cant i do that?
why did the bible not mention dinosaurs?
how did god make himself if he had nothing to start with?

i said to a teacher "so if we think of god like lego,we are to assume that the first lego piece found all the other lego pieces by itself,even if the fully built model was supreme in intelligence,we cant say for certain its individual pieces could be intelligent"

i kinda baffled em with that.

 

[Cris]

Counsler,

Would you rather believe that Jesus was born in a barn, and that he is the son of God? Or would you rather believe that aliens visited in 1970 and told one man to spread their word?

I don’t care either way. I’ll believe anything that has a credible and substantial evidential basis.

In my experience truth tends often not to be what one wants it to be, and often it is definitely not wanted. The correct attitude is to maintain an open mind to any possibility, and to consider the claims with an approach of objectivity and critical analysis. It then follows that one wouldn’t believe just anything but only those claims that can be supported. Open minded doesn’t mean being so open that your brains fall out. If one also tempers their analysis with past experiences and with frequent sanity checks then one should achieve reasonable conclusions, which of course can mean that all claims are false or not credible.

 

[Zero]

whatsupyall...you pathetic idiot

I've seen the words 'brainwashed' thrown arround here and there.

I'll make it clear on which side I stand, while trying to be as objective about this as possible.

Good. HurrAH.

If a child is told (or hear others tell them so) all the while it's growing up that morality is unneccessary and God is just an imagination like "giant purple squid monkey" by the world, by it's parents, friends or teachers, and that there is no such a thing as 'sin' or truth, there is no right from wrong.

So you claim that there can be no virtue outside of your god? Your god claims to have authority over right and wrong? Some paltry god that is.

A place called Hell is made up for financial gain (whatever the reason is. That child will when grown up often believe God dont exist with unquestionable faith.
The child has been told over and over again about myths. The child is essentialy brainwashed, or rather it has been taught to block out morality and god with it (Of course God dont exists!!!). It is perhaps even incapable of doubting God dont exist.

A child will grow up, and believe that any nonChristian viewpoint has been invented by Satan to mislead the blessed believers. That child will grow up with unquestionable faith, unshaking hatred and contempt of ALL nonchristians, and stout belief in the ultimate superiority of christianity, like all good little christians must believe.

I think this would be a valid example of the average highly brainwashed atheists person, their parents were non-religious (or was but treated them badly), and same with friends, and as a result so are they if they are brought up in the right environment.
I've known those who have had the exact opposite result.

I think this would be a valid example of the average highly brainwashed christian person, their parents were fervently religious (or was but treated them badly), and same with friends, and so are they if they are brought up in the right environment. I've known those who have had the exact opposite result.

I've seen atheists individuals throw the brainwashed lable at theists. I don't think the average theist was told over and over again 'that god exist' as a child, TAKE ME AS AN EXAMPLE, I WASNT TOLD OVER AND OVER AGAIN GOD EXIST, IN FACT I WAS ONCE AN ATHEISTS THROUGH PARTS OF MY TEEN YEARS, BUT MATURITY TOOK ITS TOLL, I NOW ACCEPT GOD (PLUS I HAVE EXPERIENCED HIM)....

And what? You have thrown the same brainwashed label at atheists? Some wise, mature person who has experienced the glory of god you are.

Most of our beliefs are heavily based on what we've been taught as a child. These beliefs stick with us as we are growing up. I was told 'I don't know' when I asked why things exist by luck (now i do, they are deluded with a wreong judgment, considering a belief that is COMPLETELY illogical WITHOUT a doubt.)

The so-called 'deluded and illogical' Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle, which is based on probability, coupled with Pauli Exclusion Principle is the best theory for explaining how the stars shine. You hear me, you deaf git? The deluded theories of probability and luck explain how the fucking stars shine. Classic physics doesn't work.

So who is brain washed? Or should I say, why are so many people still so religious? Because many have experienced him, and many have common sense, REALIZING THAT ERRORS ARE ALWAYS WITHIN HUMANITY, WITH OR WITHOUT RELIGION, IF JOHN TOLD MIKE TO DO GOOD, AND IF MIKE STILL DID EVIL, JOHN WHO TOLD MIKE TO DO GOOD SHOULD NOT BE BLAIMED FOR THE EVIL ACT MIKE COMMITED...

Why are so many people still religious? Why indeed? Why are so many people atheist? Agnostic? Why the hell would any idiot in his right mind believe in a god? Why the fuck would any idiot in his right mind NOT believe in a god?

Get ready for a BIG surprise whatsup...something YOU've never heard about...

...because they choose to.

1+1=2....WHAT IS SO HARD ABOUT THAT ATHEISTS KIDS???

1+1=2...what is so hard about that, whatsupyall kid?

 

[Zero]

Originally posted by moonman
whatsupyall-

Do you realy think that we are going to take you seriously if you insult us and display such hostility towards our opinions.
I respect your firm-mindedness and your devotion, I simply ask that you respect my right to express myself without directly jumping to deny my reasoning and rationality.

Have a nice day.

I do not, I repeat, I do NOT respect such blind-minded devotion or irrational attachment to one's own viewpoint, or such arrogant assertion of one's own superiority as whatsupyall has exhibited.

Devotion is a highly respectable quality, and it deserves it. BUT whatsupyall has not exhibited devotion. He has exhibited arrogance.

Again, I condemn whatsup's attitude and I assure him that if there were a god, that god would be highly displeased with that attitude.

 

[Cris]

whatsup,

Oh well I’ll try to correct you as best I can. Most everyone else here seems to be in a state of disbelief and shock.

while trying to be as objective about this as possible.

We should discuss what being objective means at some point.

If a child is told (or hear others tell them so) all the while it's growing up that morality is unnecessary

Who are you talking about? I don’t personally know anyone like this. Do you mean families that base their lives on criminal behavior perhaps?

Most responsible (the vast majority) of thinking atheists certainly teach codes of morality, just not religious morality.

Trying to imply that atheists are immoral is a considerable insult to millions of atheists who I suspect conduct their lives with significantly more tolerance and courtesy than you display.

and that there is no such a thing as 'sin' or truth, there is no right from wrong.

Sin simply means disobeying a god. If gods do not exist then sin is impossible.

Truth is something entirely disconnected from the rest of your statements. Truth is entirely what atheists are trying to discover.

And atheists do very much teach morality, and the differences from right and wrong.

You appear to have an utterly confused notion of what it means to be an atheist.

The child has been told over and over again about myths.

You mean like Christian children are told. Atheists don’t teach myths.

The child is essentialy brainwashed, or rather it has been taught to block out morality and god with it (Of course God dont exists!!!).

I suspect that some atheists parents do teach that god probably doesn’t exist. But the morality issue is entirely independent of religion and of whether gods exist or not.

their parents were non-religious (or was but treated them badly),

I think you are implying that people become atheist because they are treated badly when young. As Xev says – this is surreal.

1+1=2....what is so hard about that atheists kids???

That’s fine and I recommend you stick with simple arithmetic; you seem to have mastered that. But everything else you’ve said just doesn’t add up.