Who Gives a **** If God exists

[jayleew]

The amount of humans that god loves dearly but would see burn for eternity has no relevance to a countrywide religiosity statistic.

A christian is defined as: Professing belief in Jesus as Christ or following the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus.

If someone states they believe in jesus, and believe he is the saviour of mankind - or indeed follow the religion that is based upon his teachings, then they are infact a christian. They might operate slightly different to you, for instance:

There are some christians that do not celebrate certain holidays. A biblical scholar will agree that jesus could not have been born in December, and indeed can trace the origins of christmas to a pagan festival known as sol invictus. The same goes for easter which comes from the pagan ostara. The same goes for pentecost which comes from the pagan Lugnasao. These christians would claim you as not a christian for partaking in pagan rituals/festivals, some would claim you not a christian for having premarital sex, being gay, letting a woman teach you and so on. The fact remains though that you are all christians because you all share a belief in jesus as christ, and, (although the interpretation differs), live according to his teaching.

One of the problems now is simply that jesus is no longer here. When something new like pokemon comes out you can only guess at whether jesus would consider it an evil thing or not.. As I stated before - religion and belief evolve - as they must, to save the religion from turning stagnant.

This does not make anyone else who believes in jesus as saviour any less christian than you are. When it comes down to the crunch, you might be one of those 5 left behind - while having spent your life assuming it would be the others that "litter" your church. You have no justification to instantly assign damnation to other 'christians' because your methods differ. At the end of the day the fact remains that you're all still christians no matter how differently you do things.

You are talking about little things concerning traditions and preferences. The disciples themselves thought that Mary was wasting her oil that could have been sold and fed many people. Jesus didn't care a like about any of that, only that Mary believed in Jesus as the son of God who is worthy of all blessings. Jesus doesn't care if you celebrate his birthday on June 24th or December 25th. It is enough to honor him.

A christian is defined as: Professing belief in Jesus as Christ or following the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus.

You are right to a point, but my point is who is the judge? If it is I that say that I am a Christian, that is meaningless. If the people who I help and show Jesus to say that I am a Christian, that is when the person is. Even that doesn't matter. What matters is if God says you are a Christian. Being a Christian is not as simple as professing and following, you must also live it and not deal drugs, steal, lie, gossip, or any other malicious act in order to be labeled as a Christian. Otherwise you are a hypocrite, not a Christian.

I am a hypocrite, does that matter? Words are useless in defining a person, don't you understand that?

Belief in jesus as saviour is what qualifies someone as a christian. Let's look at it the other way..

I drink, smoke, swear and fart.. I like rampant sex with the wife and think Homer Simpson kicks ass. I am an atheist. I know other people that don't like sex, beer or cigarettes, don't swear and can't stand cartoons but they are still atheists.

And I know Christians who also do as you do, does that mean anything? Those are trivial things that are not important to your salvation.

The main problem is that the bible is so contradictory that nobody knows where they stand. jesus says that the top law that you can hang all the other laws on is: "love thy neighbour". Some christians do love their neighbours but have never looked after an orphan - and thus while still following jesus laws, have actually failed in following god's laws.

The Bible is not contradictory, it is people who can't interpret the interpretation because they get caught up in the words and do not look to God for the answers that are in the Bible.

jesus says "love thy neighbour", god says: "look after orphans". You've probably never even met an orphan, and you probably don't even remotely like your neighbour - but I'm sure you can find something in the bible that qualifies you as a christian. You still are a christian - you just do things differently to other christians.

How many orphans and widows have you looked after? In either case of course you're now failing to keep a tight rein on your tongue. You're all talk over the internet - safe from prying eyes.. You can boastfully claim you do measure up, but it is a sign that you're wagging your tongue - and thus you have already failed. Having said that, are you no longer a christian?

I don't do enough, so by my definition I am not a Christian. If you limit doing good to orphans and widows you have undercut the message of Christ: Love me with all your heart, mind and soul, and love your neighbor as yourself. That I do, and I do love my neighbour and am there for him, as little as I know him I am there for him and he is for me.

It's not flawed at all. You just have a personal ideal of what a christian is, while happily negating anyone else that calls themself a christian but does not measure up to your personal expectations. I can assure you there are many christians who would state that you don't measure up to their expectations. Does that now make you a non-christian? Of course not, such a statement would be silly - and yet it's exactly what you're saying.

Yes, I have an opinion of what a Christian is and it is not what most of today's Christians are. And it is largely to do with what they are thinking, and I know because I used to think as they.

It is evolution at work. What, you honestly want it to be biblical law and nothing else? You'd still be out there stoning your children to death and committing other such atrocities like they do in the muslim world. It's somewhat a fundamentalist vs slightly sane battle. Some are hardcore loons that padlock their fannies and never get bonked and some are more relatively at ease who do have sex but ain't into anything kinky. It's a gradient, and no matter what end of the scale you're on, you're still christian if you profess belief in jesus as saviour.

No, one is who everyone else says one is. My point is that Chrisitians need to accept that the Bible was written by human hand and its interpretation is flawed as it has been translated as well as interpreted from God's word. Because of this, we need to do as the Christians did. They used their brain and debated and prayed until they reached a conclusion on the scriptures.

 

[Cottontop3000]

Aren't there other religions in america?

What, the 25% that are not Christian? All you need to win an election here is less than 50%.

 

[SnakeLord]

You are talking about little things concerning traditions and preferences.

No, I'm stating that regardless to how you differ as christians does not make you any less christian. I've said it several times now but you keep missing it.

Jesus doesn't care if you celebrate his birthday on June 24th or December 25th.

Did he personally say that or are you just guessing? But in either case it isn't of any consequence. The point was that you do things differently to other christians, and yet you are all still christians.

You are right to a point, but my point is who is the judge?

The person who decides to believe in what he believes in. Again, he might not live up to your personal standards, or perhaps he is above your personal standards and would consider your type of christian as satan spawn - but you're all still christians. That's all there is to it.

If the people who I help and show Jesus to say that I am a Christian, that is when the person is.

Well then the issue is settled. I'm sure every single person calling themselves a christian can find someone else who they have helped that can say they're christian. So, there you have it..

What matters is if God says you are a Christian.

god says you're a christian if you help widows and oprhans - which means there's probably only 50 christians on the planet. How many orphans and widows have you ever met, let alone helped?

Being a Christian is not as simple as professing and following, you must also live it and not deal drugs, steal, lie, gossip, or any other malicious act in order to be labeled as a Christian. Otherwise you are a hypocrite, not a Christian.

Then it's seriously doubtful that there's any such thing as a christian.

I am a hypocrite, does that matter?

Yes it does. It then means that you're not a christian and as such have no rights to sit here trying to state who is or isn't a christian.

Words are useless in defining a person, don't you understand that?

Are you feeling ok?

And I know Christians who also do as you do, does that mean anything?

Yeah, but I guess the whole point went over your head.

Those are trivial things that are not important to your salvation.

Your salvation or damnation is not important to the discussion. The claim was made that America is not a christian nation. Considering it has a 75-80% christian population it is safe to say it is a christian nation. You my friend are simply arguing semantics - trying to tell me that many of them don't do it your way so they don't qualify - which is total bollocks. I can only hope they differ from you considering I even had to explain to you about human rights.

The fact of the matter is that America is a christian nation. You can spend your time arguing the finer points of how to conduct yourself with other christians, but that fact remains fact.

The Bible is not contradictory, it is people who can't interpret the interpretation because they get caught up in the words and do not look to God for the answers that are in the Bible.

But it is contradictory. The old "people can't read English as well as I can" excuse is absolute hogwash, made up by simpletons to try and excuse the fact that the bible is overrun with contradiction. We can go through a list of such contradictions at some other time.

If you limit doing good to orphans and widows you have undercut the message of Christ

Limit? See, that's a bad interpretation of the text. You don't see god saying to limit yourself to just that, but he does express it's importance, and that without doing so you ar, according to god, in a religion that is impure and faulty. If we go by that you are no longer a christian - but you would still classify yourself as a christian if someone asked you. That is how the statistic is taken. People don't check up to see how many orphans or widows you've helped, or whether you've ever told a lie - because then the statistic would say 0 christians in America. Someone who believe in jesus as saviour can't be classified as a hindu, muslim, satanist, atheist.. no - they're classified as a christian, because they believe in christ.

Love me with all your heart, mind and soul, and love your neighbor as yourself. That I do, and I do love my neighbour and am there for him, as little as I know him I am there for him and he is for me.

And all the other christians would claim the very same thing - so we're back at 80%.

Yes, I have an opinion of what a Christian is and it is not what most of today's Christians are.

See? Even you called them christians. Thus is the point, thank you very much. America is a christian nation. Whether they measure up to your personal opinions is irrelevant.

My point is that Chrisitians need to accept that the Bible was written by human hand and its interpretation is flawed as it has been translated as well as interpreted from God's word.

Yes, it has been written by ancient people that didn't know much about anything - and that's why it's so flawed and contradictory. But that is irrelevant. Because you've never helped an orphan does not mean you're not christian. You still are a christian, and so are they.

Because of this, we need to do as the Christians did. They used their brain

I have yet to see one christian actually do that.

 

[Huwy]

Is "god" supposed to be a male? If so, does he have a penis? He must have a penis if he is to be referred to as a male.

If so, how big is his penis? Does he get erections?

The whole concept of a "god" that looks like an old man, or is male, is ridiculous.
The notion that god is even remotely human is ridiculous.

Now if someone talks about "god' being all the energy or all the light in the universe, or some other physics thing, then i can respect their beliefs.

 

[Cottontop3000]

he's an old fart like someone else that I know here.
his "penis" is about an inch long.
thus, his preoccupation with fucking his children.

 

[jayleew]

America is a Christian nation.

Okay, I see your point. I think there is a bad stereotype and misconception to the truth, but I must concede that 80% of the nation claims to be Christian. But that is as far is that goes. If the 80% are what God intended to be Christian, then I am not a Christian and I do not wish to be stereotyped into the cult. I follow Christ and have faith in God. I look to the Bible for clues, and do as I preach as much as I can, and I see my own failures to be perfect. But that is all I claim. Jesus is my savior, but I am not what is called a "Christian" in terms of what are defined and labeled as "Christians" in America. The new breed that I am are an ancient breed wakened to show the world what it means to not be the Christian you know of. We were among the first Christians, but we died in the Crusades. We are again reborn, and my brothers and sisters gather to proclaim the good news! Not damnation!

 

[jayleew]

Is "god" supposed to be a male? If so, does he have a penis? He must have a penis if he is to be referred to as a male.

If so, how big is his penis? Does he get erections?

The whole concept of a "god" that looks like an old man, or is male, is ridiculous.
The notion that god is even remotely human is ridiculous.

Now if someone talks about "god' being all the energy or all the light in the universe, or some other physics thing, then i can respect their beliefs.

It says in scripture that we were made in the image of God. Now what that means is pure speculation. Jesus is referred to in scripture as the bridegroom. What conclusions can we draw from those two statements? How can an infinitely old God grow old? I don't see how, if he has a physical body (which is hinted at in Revelations) and is immortal, how he can biochemically degrade and yet continue existing. How could God be human at all, but we can still be made in the likeness of God and be human.

 

[Silas]

Jayleew is wrong - the USA is certainly a Christian nation by his definition. According to Barbara Victor, surveys show that there are 80 million Evangelical "born again" Christians in America, or getting on for a third of the entire population. If we assume that the majority of those are adults (no reason to do so, but lets just say) it gets on for well over 50% of the voting population. The President himself is an Evangelical. The Evangelical lobby has grown more and more powerful at the very highest levels of government consultation over the last twenty or so years. Ironically, the Evangelical movement found that the first "born again" President, Jimmy Carter, was not actually as much "their man in the White House" as Ronnie Reagan promised to be, despite the fact that Reagan was not actually devout. He just said the right things, which Carter did not, and the Family put their support behind Reagan, not Carter.

Something Jayleew said is right:

America is not the nation it was established to be.

Absolutely correct. America was established as a nation free from religious dogma having any kind of hold over the legislation of human affairs. America was established as a nation where people of any religious affiliation or none could consider themselves free to pursue their own beliefs in their own way. America is very definitely not that nation.