jayleew said:Vast majority? Let's see the statistic you have and the source, then we can know the vast majority, besides all you are saying is that Christians are no different than everyone else.
http://abstractsdb.ncjrs.org/conten...e=25&ncjnum=151513&docIndex=0&chkBoxBitFlags=Christians: 65%, Protestants: 50%
Muslims: 9%
Total Christians and Muslims: 74%
Non-Affiliated: 15% [Non-Affiliated = Undefined, but assumed to be believers not affiliated with a specific denomination.]
Total Christians + Muslims + Non-Affiliated: 89%
Remainder: 11% [Not specified, but most likely to include nonbelievers—atheists and agnostics.]
jayleew said:Every person is unethical according to God. Why is it that the agnostic/atheist/non-religious population under-represetned in prisons?
I am telling you! They lack ethical behavior which is enforced by our laws which put them there.
jayleew said:Most of the signers were Christians with Christian principals which were created through a Christian goggles. So how could the Constitution or the DoI be anything but biased to Christian morals and ethics i.e. birthed from Christian morals and ethics?
jayleew said:
Note the ";" which punctuates a complete thought.Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.
jayleew said:This is not any different than when God commanded Moses to slaughter those who had no hope of finding God and rebelled against him.
jayleew said:A system of ethics is part of every religion.
cato said:you are wrong, the way of christanity is to spread the word, and convert as many people as possible. it was that fact that caused so much trouble in Europe, so they decided to avoid the pitfalls and weaknesses of their religion by keeping it unforced upon people. they had the vision to see where christanity could go if it was integrated into the government. moreover, ethics, morality, and the like, are not based in religion, they may have even thought they were using christen ethics in things like the bill of rights, but in fact they were just using human intuition.
Give me a break. The first reference attempts to use the fact that Christianity is not mentioned in the founding documents is evidence that the founders were not Christians.Godless said:Sweet and to the point. Our Founding Fathers were not CHRISTIANS!!.
http://freethought.mbdojo.com/foundingfathers.html
http://www.atheistalliance.org/library/morris-founding_fathers.html
http://www.borndigital.com/founders.htm
Three free ref. for ya!.
Godless
If you word is from an atheist point of view who knows little of the Holy Ghost, then you cannot possibly begin to comprehend the way of Christianity.Godless said:*you are wrong, the way of christanity is to spread the word, and convert as many people as possible.*
And in ancient days, this meant BY FORCE!.
Godless
Typical response from atheists.SkinWalker said:Typical fundamentalist propaganda. Actually, many if not most of the Founding Fathers were Deists.
The quotes are out of context and there are very few. How can we presume to know the beliefs of an individual without tons of thoughts from them? I cannot tell your beliefs without your word, or would you like for me to classify you as you do them?SkinWalker said:Someone else gave some relevant links, so I'll leave this alone from here.
Yes, but we cannot make the conclusion of what the founders believed without mountains of writings of thoughts. Otherwise, we are going to get nowhere.SkinWalker said:The link above is the one "out of context." The author attributes the quote to "George Washington," quite in error. It was Joel Barlow who wrote the treaty and John Adams that read it aloud on the Senate floor. It quite clearly says: Note the ";" which punctuates a complete thought.
Yes, the mercy of God is beautiful. You see, we cannot take vengence for those who stab us in the back because it is God's.SkinWalker said:Now there's something to be proud of. You are suggesting that the colonists and pioneers of the United States were justified in slaughtering millions of men, women and children in wholesale Genocide because such was the command of a god?
You are entitled to your belief, and I can't help it if you do not want to understand.SkinWalker said:If that's the case, then I certainly want no part of your cult! Indeed, anyone who would believe such nonsense is Pathetic!
There are no loopholes. We are not excused of anything. "Christians" have distorted your point of view so much that you think you know it all and have already passed judgement. Your mind is closed on the matter, so you will not understand. I will teach you the scriptures, but you must want to learn.SkinWalker said:No... systems of ethics are part of humanity, as is religion.
It is apparent that the ethics of christianity are flawed as they leave too many loopholes for "believers" to take advantage of.
Godless said:Oh! yes the ethical and moral bible.
It be nice if christians really read the damn thing!.
you are not a physics buff are you? they know quite well what events are needed to produce the finely tuned universe we have before us.we cant prove it and if there wasn't we must assume a differen't force that constructed the universe to its finely tuned workings.
I'll admit that I wasn't always a true Christian, I was a proclaimed "Christian" because it was the "in" thing and didn't read my bible, but I proclaimed I did.
You are close. I am saying anyone who claims to follow Christ, and/or reads his Word, and does not the things the Word says, but instead uses the Word to justify their beliefs and/or actions are not a Christian. Those who mess up and realize their worth and repent of their sin and ask God to remove them from the sin, are Christians. Those who mess up and repent of their sin and allow themselves to sin because they know they will be forgiven again, or try to use scripture to allow their sin are not Christians.Sarkus said:Jayleew, I think I'm beginning to see where your arguments stem from....
When you refer to Christians you are not referring to all the people who would merely claim to be of that particular religion, but to the one or two people in each million who actually reach your IDEAL of Christianity - i.e. the one or two Missionaries who happily give their life to save the murderer of their children (or that type of thing).
Anyone that falls short of these ideals you are claiming should no longer be deemed a Christian.
So any person in prison for stealing, for killing, for fighting etc is not actually a Christian.
Obviously any ideal Christian reads the Bible through the (blinkered spectacles of the) Holy Spirit, and anyone who can't read it through the Holy Spirit is obviously not a true Christian.
Am I anywhere close?
You'll get no fluff from me that I am conscience of. I swat those flies all the time from my brothers and sisters. It says in scripture we should have a child-like faith, but not be a child. They mean well with their fluff though, so I forgive them.[D]ejaVu` said:The bible was written by the same people that thought the world was flat.
Back to the Subject... Who Created God?
Who can comprehend forever? think about it? think about a line of toilet paper stretching forever.....picture it in your mind. Can you? No! it ends somewhere dosn't it? Of course it does cause human brains are limited. There can be no answers to anything when you speak of God or the Devine or whatever...if there was a creator we cant proove it and if there wasn't we must assume a differen't force that constructed the universe to its finely tuned workings. That force cannot be proved/explained and God cant be explained... its a Lose Lose stituation i believe.
And yeah you Bible people belong in caves....cave men ( oh and dont gimmie a reply about how I should love yourself (cause i do *kisses reflection*) or that you feel sorry for me because i feel this way....its old, or that you sense anger in me....pfft i'll brush you off like a fly on a BBQ'd meal!)
loving human, its all you need to know
The mob wanted to have homosexual relations with the two men who came to Lot's house. Lot had faith in God, so anything that represents God, he loves more than his family. God always asks us to love him more than anyone on Earth. What Lot did was courageous to stand up to a crowd and offer his daughters. Besides that, in those days, tradition said that women and children are property. Jesus came and perfected the law and dared to call women and children friends.Godless said:Little do you know! that I was a Catholic, Babtist, then a Christian for over 20 years of my life. I've read the Godamn bible, not-from cover to cover, but the point was to read what the preacher preached. I have read most of the crap in the so called morals.
So what is so moral, about Lot given up his daughters to be raped by a mad mob, while he protects "two angels"?
Microevolution. Their bodies are adapted to live in the conditions which they came. That is only a theory though.Godless said:Where in the hell do Japanese people come from, or black men, if there were only two freaking people in the world?. In biblical times it was hay-day for incest.
Most of the old testament are stories of what not to do, dood. The history is there so we do not repeat the mistakes of those that came before us. The stories are also of righteous men who screwed up just like we did. Most of them repented, I'd like to think all, but the Bible is unclear...like with Jonah. The moral code of God is in the stories, not of the actions of man which is sinful. Even Abraham was foolish and did the best he could understand, but he paid the price of not listening to God all the time.Godless said:O! and that reminds me, what about Lot's daughters?. LOL.. Get him drunk to lay with him?. Come on dood!! read the godamn bible and tell me it's moral teaching!. Incest, rape, tourture, genocide, all a moral code of the god of the bible?..
This is what I mean, your understanding along with most of the world is like a baby's. Again, the old testament are stories of how to endure through faith and what not to do. The new testament is vitally important on how to live since the law was perfected. The new testament teaches the morals we need to have, based on the mistakes of our ancestors. Because of this, I have concentrated my studies on the new testament. The old is important to keep context of the new. And it also shows the consitency of God, but the sinful wayward men. We are not to live as the old testament commanded. Jesus came and cleared this up. He basically came and said, "Wait a minute, I am the Son of God (and I am God), this is how you are to live. Forget what Moses said, he was a great guy and he dwells with me, but he is an idiot. And since you all are a bunch of screwups and screwups and God do not belong together, not like me (I am perfect), I will give up my human existence so that my Father will see my sacrifice for your sakes. Then you will have a chance to see my Father."Godless said:
You were like I was, a self-proclaimed Christian. I did the best I could with what I had. I went to church and everything. That is the only the beginnings of Christianity. I was still under the influence of the world greatly with little faith in God...I chose to believe, but I had little faith. Faith comes over time with with a good track record of God's grace and aid. Christianity is a process. If you didn't learn how to be a Christian and what benefits there are to being one in 20 years, then that church failed you and you failed yourself by not seeking God yourself. Maybe one day you will find a real Christian who is not afraid to let God work, instead of himself, and give you something to believe in. Samson fell away from God just as you did. He lost everything. Before he died, he became a Christian and gained everything.Godless said:Little do you know! that I was a Catholic, Babtist, then a Christian for over 20 years of my life. I've read the Godamn bible, not-from cover to cover, but the point was to read what the preacher preached. I have read most of the crap in the so called morals.