Who are the Infidels?

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

In another thread leopold99 made this comment:

"war on islam isn't being waged, its martyrdom and sole survival that's being targeted.
if islam iradicates martyrs then it will probably eliminate a great deal of problems.
most of the rest can probably be solved with the conclusion of islam, or any other religion, isn't the cats meow of religions.

like "anal beads" says:

Loosen up." Post #68


ND offered this as a response:

"If there are no infidels, there are no martyrs." Post #72

http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?p=2454083&posted=1#post2454083

Who are exactly the infidels? And what is the plan to rid the world of them? I can only assume that such a statement implies there is a need to be rid of infidels.

Does it mean getting rid of troops? Or does it mean a certain religious domination?

Any thoughts?

 

[Baron Max]

Who are exactly the infidels? ...

As I understand the term, Lucy, "infidel" means non-believer ...a non-believer of any specified religious faith. I.e., if one is discussing the Christian faith, and someone calls another an "infidel", he's basically claiming that he doesn't believe in the Christian god and/or faith.

However, all that being said, in today's world, "infidel" has come to mean, in the popular usage, a person who is not Muslim and doesnt believe in Allah or the prophet Mohammed.

And what is the plan to rid the world of them? I can only assume that such a statement implies there is a need to be rid of infidels.

Does it mean getting rid of troops? Or does it mean a certain religious domination?

Any thoughts?

I don't know for sure, Lucy. But often in Islam, the believers, the faithful, are expected to be "soldiers of Allah" and carry out the edicts of religious leaders, immams, or whatever they're called. "Jihad" is a holy war in the name of Islam .....killing infidels, I guess???

Baron Max

 

[Michael]

Infidels for Muslims are non-Muslims. Just another intolerant concept they copied from the Christians and Jews.

 

[fedr808]

Infidels for Muslims are non-Muslims. Just another intolerant concept they copied from the Christians and Jews.

well first off, every religion has some version of that, its a fact. It could be as simple as saying "non Buddhists", every religion has something they use to indicate someone that is not of that religion.

but out of curiosity, when has Judaism as a whole been completely intolerant of another religion? hell, weve been on the recieving end of what you say probably more often than anyone else.

 

[-ND-]

In another thread leopold99 made this comment:

"war on islam isn't being waged, its martyrdom and sole survival that's being targeted.
if islam iradicates martyrs then it will probably eliminate a great deal of problems.
most of the rest can probably be solved with the conclusion of islam, or any other religion, isn't the cats meow of religions.

like "anal beads" says:

Loosen up." Post #68


ND offered this as a response:

"If there are no infidels, there are no martyrs." Post #72

http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?p=2454083&posted=1#post2454083

Who are exactly the infidels? And what is the plan to rid the world of them? I can only assume that such a statement implies there is a need to be rid of infidels.

Does it mean getting rid of troops? Or does it mean a certain religious domination?

Any thoughts?

LOL! You don't understand the simple law of action and reaction?

 

[Michael]

well first off, every religion has some version of that, its a fact. It could be as simple as saying "non Buddhists", every religion has something they use to indicate someone that is not of that religion.

Yes, but the Buddhist will say: You may be right and I may be wrong.

How about you fedr808? Is it possible your religion may be wrong?

when has Judaism as a whole been completely intolerant of another religion?

Jews have always been intolerant of the worship different Gods and Goddesses and teach that the worshiping those other Gods and Goddesses is in some manner wrong and or evil. I'd say it's the central tenant in their Gawd awful belief system.

 

[CheskiChips]

Jews have always been intolerant of the worship different Gods and Goddesses and teach that the worshiping those other Gods and Goddesses is in some manner wrong and or evil. I'd say it's the central tenant in their Gawd awful belief system.

Strange, a group of people who not only continued to believe something but continued to practice it when given other options. It might have something to do with their "central tenant" being monotheism. Though, I think it's ironically intolerant to be actively intolerant of those you perceive as being passively intolerant. Since Jews aren't knocking at doors telling anyone they're doomed, and are instead just not actively participating with the rest of the world, they're probably closer to indifferent than to intolerant.

That is to say...if you're refusal to believe in monotheism cannot be described as "intolerance", then you're a hypocrite. Which do you prefer?

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

LOL! You don't understand the simple law of action and reaction?

Care to explain? Do you mean that if there were no non-muslims then there would be no martyrs? And what is a martyr other than someone who kills themselves and others for allah? Clue me.

 

[Michael]

Strange, a group of people who not only continued to believe something but continued to practice it when given other options. It might have something to do with their "central tenant" being monotheism. Though, I think it's ironically intolerant to be actively intolerant of those you perceive as being passively intolerant. Since Jews aren't knocking at doors telling anyone they're doomed, and are instead just not actively participating with the rest of the world, they're probably closer to indifferent than to intolerant.

That is to say...if you're refusal to believe in monotheism cannot be described as "intolerance", then you're a hypocrite. Which do you prefer?

Yes and you can look through history and find many instances where Jews living in multicultural areas and piss people right the fuck off. Whether it's ancient Alexandria or modern day Europe. It's only recently it's finally blending into mainstream in at least the USA.

Anyway, it may have had its usefulness in the past when Israel was an independent state, I mean, they were all like this back then, but, not in today's multicultural world. Look two people working together in monopoly can cheat the other players out of the game and share the "win" (I suppose) but it's not fun nor fair and guess what happens when the other players get pissed off enough? They smack the cheaters in the nose with their fist IF they're made enough.

Again, the ideology had it's place, but has not place in the modern world. And, just like Christians and Muslims, many Jews are leaving their superstition behind and moving forward into a freer and better world THAT'S not my fault, that's just the way it is.

NOTE: There's nothing wrong with Jewish secular tradition - if anything this is admirable and quite progressive. As I understand it, my grandmothers', mother's German mother was Jewish (my grandmother likes genealogy for some reason) maybe I organize to go and get my Israeli passport... after I "convert" of course. See how silly this is?

 

[CheskiChips]

Yes and you can look through history and find many instances where Jews living in multicultural areas and piss people right the fuck off. Whether it's ancient Alexandria or modern day Europe. It's only recently it's finally blending into mainstream in at least the USA.

I think that's actually evidence of Alexandrian and European intolerance...not evidence of Jewish intolerance. You cite the US as evidence - the US is built on tolerance of difference, so how is that evidence of historical Jewish intolerance and not evidence of modern US tolerance? Somehow you've missed all of this evidence and built it into an alternative (though far less logical) solution.

Anyway, it may have had its usefulness in the past when Israel was an independent state, I mean, they were all like this back then, but, not in today's multicultural world.

Non-capitulation doesn't equate to intolerance. Their desire to retain independence can't be equated to intolerance, that was the old argument of the Hellenists - a bad argument then and now. Your argument it has no place today is also not true...it may have no place in the stable world, but it held no place in the stable world then either. Were the Kurds intolerant of Iraq...or was Iraq intolerant of the Kurds?

Again, the ideology had it's place, but has not place in the modern world. And, just like Christians and Muslims, many Jews are leaving their superstition behind and moving forward into a freer and better world THAT'S not my fault, that's just the way it is.

Actually religiosity appears to have increased in the late 20th century.

 

[Michael]

OK, fair enough, how does religious Judaism benefit non Jews living in the USA?

the US is built on tolerance of difference, so how is that evidence of historical Jewish intolerance and not evidence of modern US tolerance?

yeah, I was trying to balance a Becks when I posted that


Yes, I'd say the moderate US tolerance of Judaism is helping Jews to integrate as full citizens and in doing so finding that they can define themselves as American first and Jew second and finally simply as an American. A win on the side of multiculturalism wouldn't you agree?

The latest study shows religiosity is decreasing in the USA (I posted a thread on this not that long ago). Not that it matters, in the long run, I doubt people will worship Gods. Especially once aging is cured. It just won't appeal to most people - many already find it childish and silly.

 

[-ND-]

Care to explain? Do you mean that if there were no non-muslims then there would be no martyrs? And what is a martyr other than someone who kills themselves and others for allah? Clue me.

LOL, you are a funny person.

Action= Attacker Reaction=Defender.

Martyrs exist in any religion.

 

[fedr808]

Yes, but the Buddhist will say: You may be right and I may be wrong.

How about you fedr808? Is it possible your religion may be wrong?
Jews have always been intolerant of the worship different Gods and Goddesses and teach that the worshiping those other Gods and Goddesses is in some manner wrong and or evil. I'd say it's the central tenant in their Gawd awful belief system.

where does it say that?

And I do believe 70% of every other religion says the same thing.

but since when have the Jewish people as a whole done the above?

The crusades
The inquisition
the witch hunts
the sacking of our temple, twice
the exile
the holocaust
the pogroms

And those are just the big ones, since when did the Jewish people deserve any of those?

 

[Michael]

You've loaded your question with the word "deserve". I didn't say anyone deserved anything. I'm asking WHY does it happen? WHY did German Christians try to kill off all of their fellow German Citizens that were Jewish? Do you THINK it MAY have had something to do with the ideology of Judaism?

Why has antisemitism had such a long history in so many cultures? You're asking what did Jews do to deserve all these punishments - OK, yes, I wonder: Why have so many people not liked people, even their own fellow Citizens, who were Jewish? What do you think the reason is? We're not talking about an isolated incidence here. Just what are Jews doing to piss off such a large number of different people over such a large span of time?

Notice it's not ME that created history. History is History. I'm just asking why do you think that is happened the way it did?



Lastly, how does religious Judaism benefit non-Jews living in the USA?



As for the tenants of Buddhism, every Buddhist I have known has said exactly that. I'm assuming if it's not written down then it's taught widely because I know Buddhist in Japan to Singapore to Germany. They've all said the same - every one of them.

 

[Sock puppet path]

where does it say that?

And I do believe 70% of every other religion says the same thing.


but since when have the Jewish people as a whole done the above?

The crusades
The inquisition
the witch hunts
the sacking of our temple, twice
the exile
the holocaust
the pogroms

And those are just the big ones, since when did the Jewish people deserve any of those?

If you believe the Torah/old testament they eradicated several nations/tribes down to every woman and child when they had some power and now that they have got that power back they are doing it again

Moderator warning: link to a graphic image of a buried child follows. Click at your own risk.

http://rtsf.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/israeli-war-crimes.jpg

Now I am not attempting to make excuses or blame israelis for being evil or denying that israelis have a right to a homeland (I am basically pro Israel) but damn they are doing some inexcusable things right now in the name of G-d. It is almost as if the wrong lesson was learned from the holocaust.

 

[-ND-]

If you believe the Torah/old testament they eradicated several nations/tribes down to every woman and child when they had some power and now that they have got that power back they are doing it again

Moderator warning: link to a graphic image of a buried child follows. Click at your own risk.

http://rtsf.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/israeli-war-crimes.jpg

Now I am not attempting to make excuses or blame israelis for being evil or denying that israelis have a right to a homeland (I am basically pro Israel) but damn they are doing some inexcusable things right now in the name of G-d. It is almost as if the wrong lesson was learned from the holocaust.

That is why you need to understand, that there are some people out there, called "Free Masons." They are the ones responsible for the holocaust and they are responsible for all the evil in the world. Hitler was a puppet to the Free Masons. Free Masons supplied all things necessary inorder to have the holocaust. This would give them the chance to install the state of Israel. All this makes sense when you realize that Free Masons worship the Devil and they are trying to bring back the Anti-Christ. This might make sense to some and to some it won't do anything and call it a conspiracy. I recommend watching; "THE ARRIVALS" EPISODES.

 

[786]

Infidel a word simply to categorize 'believers' and 'non-believers'.

There are Americans and there are people who are 'not-Americans'
There are Animals and there are Plants
There are rocks and there are non-rocks
There is matter, there is anti-matter.

Its simply a fact that if there is one thing that is 'different' from another, that the other thing is different from the first...To ascribe a word for each is simply a tool for communication. That is why we have languages.

There are Republicans and there are Democrats.

Infidel, in Islam, is simply a 'non-believer'...

Peace be unto you

 

[spidergoat]

If you believe the Torah/old testament they eradicated several nations/tribes down to every woman and child when they had some power and now that they have got that power back they are doing it again
...Now I am not attempting to make excuses or blame israelis for being evil or denying that israelis have a right to a homeland (I am basically pro Israel) but damn they are doing some inexcusable things right now in the name of G-d. It is almost as if the wrong lesson was learned from the holocaust.

The lesson was- establish a defensible nation, and don't let anyone fuck with you, if they do, kill them.

That is why you need to understand, that there are some people out there, called "Free Masons." They are the ones responsible for the holocaust and they are responsible for all the evil in the world. Hitler was a puppet to the Free Masons. Free Masons supplied all things necessary inorder to have the holocaust. This would give them the chance to install the state of Israel. All this makes sense when you realize that Free Masons worship the Devil and they are trying to bring back the Anti-Christ. This might make sense to some and to some it won't do anything and call it a conspiracy. I recommend watching; "THE ARRIVALS" EPISODES.

WOO WOO!

 

[spidergoat]

...Why has antisemitism had such a long history in so many cultures? You're asking what did Jews do to deserve all these punishments - OK, yes, I wonder: Why have so many people not liked people, even their own fellow Citizens, who were Jewish? What do you think the reason is? We're not talking about an isolated incidence here. Just what are Jews doing to piss off such a large number of different people over such a large span of time?

Notice it's not ME that created history. History is History. I'm just asking why do you think that is happened the way it did?.

The reason is Christianity was the established religion in Europe and some of the Middle East since the very earliest centuries AD. Christians blamed Jews for killing Jesus. All kinds of stories arose about Jews- that God has cursed them (which is why they didn't have a nation) - that they used the blood of gentiles in their rituals - the all Jews were born female until the blood of a gentile was applied to differentiate them. All kinds of ridiculous things were believed that justified treating them like shit. Of course, it was self-reinforcing, since treating them like shit kept them from long term prosperity. This was a time when even Christians were regularly burned alive for the slimmest of reasons.

 

[786]

Jews recognize that in their own Tanakh, God has cursed them many times- doesn't necessarily mean they are a 'cursed people' but it does show that God had been angry with them many times.

By the way, 'antisemitism' is not a monopoly held by Jews as the world would have you believe. You say anything against them and it turns into it being called 'anti-Semitic' even if a Semite was saying it

Peace be unto you