Which Religion Fits Best?

C

CrystalineGoddess

Registered Member
So, I discovered Sciforums today inadvertently while trying to finish answering this question for myself. I Google searched 'Comparison of Religions' and found myself on a page titled "Comparison of Religions -- Please Help with Chart". I read a quite a bit, hoping to come to a final conclusion on my personal debate, but found that it became quite viscous :jason: and still no answer.

I actually was looking for a chart, as I have been actively searching for the answer for over a month now (truly, it has been on and off for 12 years now). I have narrowed it down quite a bit though.

1. I am a Unitarian Universalist
2. I am a New Ager

But 3 evades me; am I Gnostic or Pagan, or am I both? I don't seem to fully believe in either, but do believe in parts of both. I think the answer lies in 1 & 2; I am neither Gnostic nor Pagan. I do not fully believe in either therefore I am neither. But I will still look to them for inspiration.

I was going to post links to the resources I used, but apparently I'm not allowed to yet; maybe later.

I don't mind if people want to reply to this, but please don't flame. :peace: I got enough of that reading the thread that brought me here!

Thanks! :wave:
 
Well, this is a religious discussion so it will be quite possible that it turns into a lengthy debate.

My personal view of the universe is this. The universe is a system of chaos. It is part of entropy and quantum uncertainty that leads me to believe in this.

At first people think, "no way, chaos is bad, it hurts people, and destroys civilizations."

But think about it this way, what if the universe were an orderly place? That would be much worse. Without chaos there is no incentive for the amoeba to evolve into the fish. No incentive for the monkey to become the Neanderthal and then the human.

Without chaos the universe would act like a couch potato. Pieces of matter and energy would quickly find their places in the universe and never budge from them.

With chaos the universe is always dynamic and changing. It is neither good nor bad, it is unbiased.

Think about it. Why is it that chaos is always associated with evil? Humanity has tried to conquer chaos for thousands of years. Our giant metal monstrosities are meant to cement our dominance over nature and chaos.

We are chaotic entities in denial. We attempt to create order. The problem is that there are always greater forces out there. We are the most powerful organic entity and force we know of. But we are definitely not the most powerful force out there. Take hurricane Katrina for example. Our entire efforts to control chaos and create the city of New Orleans over the period of decades and centuries of work was nearly levelled over the course of several days. But because of that we began to rebuild. People come together to rebuild the city, community service skyrockets and people become closer to one another.

The world of religion especially Christianity is that of an orderly universe where everything has its own place and that we are some sort of bigger plan.

Religion by definition claims that the universe is an orderly place at some level.

Atheism by definition claims that the universe is so disorganized and chaotic that there cannot be a higher power that pulls the strings.

The universe is just too big, too complex, and too chaotic to be solved with the existance of a higher power.

That brings up the question of whether atheism can be considered a religion. If religion was created in order to explain a chaotic system that our ancestors could not begin to quantify then the point of religion is to serve as an explanation for reality when we could not find any other.

Atheism is the idea that no higher power nor deity can explain the universe for what it is, a chaotic system. So that means that atheists at some level believe that the universe is chaotic and disorganized. Atheists also have some amount of faith because in science there is no such thing as absolute facts (we can thank uncertainty for that). So we can't be 100% sure of anything including atheism. So thus we must have some amount of faith whether large or small.
 
I find myself becoming more one way than another at times. As an example I think that liberal ideas are very good in many respects but also believe that it is prudent to be able to afford those ideals that liberals want to enjoy. So I am both a consevative and liberal depending upon the situation that I am presented with. So you too can have two or three different ways of thinking about what you believe and there's no problem IF they do not conflict greatly with your views.
 
birch said:
because that drive is also inherent and part of how order is created.
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That's circular logic.

"Because the drive to create order is inherent and part of how order is created."

First off, the grammar in that statement is extremely hard to follow.

I believe you are wrong. We create order to make our lives better. In reality the drive to create order is not inherent, but rather, the drive to make our lives better is inherent. And more often then not the road to making our lives better is to impose order and control.

But order is not the only road and frequently throughout history it is the chaotic solution, the solution that no one has ever seen before, that comes out victorious.

Take war for example. Do you think that if the world was an orderly place where everyone and everything had their own places and functions that there would be need for war? It is the pursuit of improvement in a society's lives by taking territory and possessions that leads to war which is an undeniably chaotic thing.
 
fedr808 said:
That's circular logic.

"Because the drive to create order is inherent and part of how order is created."

First off, the grammar in that statement is extremely hard to follow.

I believe you are wrong. We create order to make our lives better. In reality the drive to create order is not inherent, but rather, the drive to make our lives better is inherent. And more often then not the road to making our lives better is to impose order and control.

But order is not the only road and frequently throughout history it is the chaotic solution, the solution that no one has ever seen before, that comes out victorious.

Take war for example. Do you think that if the world was an orderly place where everyone and everything had their own places and functions that there would be need for war? It is the pursuit of improvement in a society's lives by taking territory and possessions that leads to war which is an undeniably chaotic thing.
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'

uh, your statement is circular logic.

it's just how living beings are that they try to create order. i guess one can call it improvement or trying to reach an objective as well.
 
on second thought, the start of 'life' or creating order could be seen as going against original chaos and that's why there is a constant state of death and return to the breakdown into it's original state. the constant struggle and pain endured to live could be an indication and could be construed as unnatural in some context.

if lifeforms would stop procreating and just die off, they would join the universe stardust like we originally came from. :shrug:
 
birch said:
'

uh, your statement is circular logic.

it's just how living beings are that they try to create order. i guess one can call it improvement or trying to reach an objective as well.
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How exactly?

My statement is that "living beings try to improve their lives, sometimes through order, sometimes through chaos."

How is this circular logic?:rolleyes:

Birch, your wrong.

Tell me, if one country decides it is in its own best interests to start a war and cause destruction and killing then is that country creating order or chaos?

Chaos, yet according to your statement living things only improve their lives through order, yet war is chaos. Hence, your wrong.

Its simple, the fact is that we are created by the same energies and forces that make up this universe, if those energies and forces are bound by chaos and entropy then by logic so are the things they make including matter and "living things" as you so elequently put it.

on second thought, the start of 'life' or creating order could be seen as going against original chaos and that's why there is a constant state of death and return to the breakdown into it's original state. the constant struggle and pain endured to live could be an indication and could be construed as unnatural in some context.

if lifeforms would stop procreating and just die off, they would join the universe stardust like we originally came from.
Click to expand...

How is starting life considered to be creating "order"? You seem to have this silly belief that life by nature is orderly. It isn't. What is "original chaos"? There is only chaos, not 'original' not 'post', just chaos.

"...universe stardust..."? What in the world are you talking about? What is so special about star dust?:rolleyes:

What is the point of this post?
 
Ug, why would anyone go religion shopping? That's makes no sense. I find lack of a religion superior.
 
What religion can offer you in today's world is satiate various psychological needs you have; however, you appear to be looking for people with compatible values and I don't think religion is going to provide that for you.

In my opinion, you may be trying to substitute religion with a network of friends. Maybe take up a hobby with people that have similar interests. For example, if you like hiking then join a hikers group and begin some friendships there.
 
Why do people so opposed to religion frequent religion based threads? I think you might be trying to convert people. :shrug:

I don't have any one particular belief system to follow, but I at least acknowledge that I don't know that there is no possibility of a god or gods, and that what other people believe is up to only themselves. If they are doing no harm, what does it matter? I admit that sometimes people take their beliefs way too far, but that doesn't apply to all religious people.

And for the record I have hobbies, I just live in the suckiest town anywhere :grumble: and can't pursue them.

The purpose of this thread was simply for people to do a little soul searching and discover their own beliefs. There are other threads dedicated to tearing down religion if that is what you are after. :peace:
 
It's probably not a good purpose for this site. You may not have realized it, but this is a science site :).
 
If everyone on this forum were atheistic and science-minded, they would all be close enough to the same thoughts on religion that the topic would not need to exist, but it does.
 
CrystalineGoddess said:
If everyone on this forum were atheistic and science-minded, they would all be close enough to the same thoughts on religion that the topic would not need to exist, but it does.
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That is a fallacy. Religion is definitely of interest to science (mostly from psychology and evolutionary standpoints); however, science also recognizes the paranormal claims of religion to not be true.
 
CrystalineGoddess said:
Fine. I give. :truce: You can have the thread. I'm unsubscribing.
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Don't go away just say what you want to. Just remember that your beliefs aren't always the same as others. That is why there's different forums to express what you think as well as what others think as well. If religion isn't something that you want to discuss then don't visit that forum, simple as that. By the way you can be a scientist and still believe in religions as long as you know that it is a belief and not a fact.
 
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